Craig Daily Press / "Spanish Pages" by bjacobson

12 November 2007 at 6:50 a.m.

grannyrett (Anonymous) says…

I think it's crazy! If the Spanish speaking population cared about this community, they would be learning English. Most don't even try to learn. When our ancestors came to this country, no one catered to them. No one printed local papers in German, Italian, Greek, or any other language. If they cared about this country, they would immerse themselves in everything about this country. I would not expect a foreign country to cater to my needs. If I were to move to Mexico, I don't think they would care that I can't speak Spanish.

27 November 2007 at 7:47 a.m.

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grannyrett (Anonymous) says…

Gosh, It's wonderful that someone agrees with me. I am all for legal immigration, but it really irks me that some people just come into this country with no intention of building a better community. It used to be that the illegals would come into the U.S. and work in agriculture for the summer and go back to their families after harvest season was over. I worked on a farm in Idaho and knew a lot of them. Just guys trying to make a better life for themselves. Now, they bring their families and stay here. I am so sick and tired of liberals calling them “undocumented aliens” What the heck is that? They are illegal - that means they broke the law getting into this country. They should be arrested and sent back home. I've heard that there are so many illegals that we can't send them all home. Well, if you send back a dozen of them, it's a start. Go to the Minuteman Civil Defence Corps website and see what we in Arizona are doing to try to help this country. We are NOT anti-Mexican! We are anti-illegal immigration. How many people know that the Mexican military have fired on our Border Agents, giving cover to drug runners? Watch Glenn Beck on HLN channel. People, we are losing this country. Wake up! Our Border Agents need help!

28 November 2007 at 1:45 p.m.

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bjacobson (Bryce Jacobson) says…

Granny,

On the contrary, in fact there was in fact german, french, and many other language newspapers established in the early days of the United State, Benjamin Franklin was the first to publish german language newspaper as just one example, the Philadelphische Zeitung began publishing in 1732 in Philadelphia. It assisted our ancestors in becoming familiar with their community then, and hopefully now.

28 November 2007 at 1:48 p.m.

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bjacobson (Bryce Jacobson) says…

Why don't we publish pages in all the other languages that exist?

That would be because those languages are not prominently used in this community, if they were we probably would, Spanish is the second highest language used in the community, and therefore it serves our community to educate citizens some illegal, many legal citizens about their community.

I am hoping that this blog does not become a bash our neighbor debate, rather a debate as to the effects or lack their of, the spanish pages in the Craig Daily Press have in this community.

28 November 2007 at 8:03 p.m.

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grannyrett (Anonymous) says…

I'm with you native! This is not about bashing the Spanish speaking population. My great grandfathers parents were both from Germany. My great grandfather did NOT grow up speaking German. It was forbidden to speak anything but English in his home. My 2 great grandfather had such a love of this country that he felt it insulted Americans to speak any language other than English. He was proud to be in this country and wanted his children to be raised as Americans. That and only that is the reason that many people have a hard time with the Spanish speaking population. When you are ask if you speak Spanish in a job interview as I was a few years ago, something is wrong. No, I don't speak Spanish. If they are here legally and want to become a productive part of this community, I am all for it. We as Americans have always welcomed those less fortunate into this country. But what upsets me is the ones who cross our borders illegally and want us to speak their language. It upsets a lot of us Bryce, and maybe you ought to run a poll on it. Native and I are surly not the only ones who feel this way.Again-We are not bashing legal immigrants. This country has always welcomed them and always will. But it seems to me that if a person wants to come into this country legally, they would want to fit in, become a productive member of this society, and be able to communicate with their neighbors.

29 November 2007 at 9:48 a.m.

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bjacobson (Bryce Jacobson) says…

I do not have any “stats” on who picks up the Tuesday paper, I know that the free copies distributed on Tuesday are gone quicker than any other publication date. We also have an advisory board that tells us that they are being used, and teachers that are telling us they are being used.

“Hordes”, no, but several, yes, have indeed called us and told us thank you, have told our advisory board thank you.

We did a weekly poll several months back, you can see the results at http://www.craigdailypress.com/polls/….

Business owners make decisions that assist in growing their bottom line, if I understand correctly the opinion (that is was offensive to ask a potential employee if they spoke spanish), an employer shouldn't attempt to serve their customers, more efficiently?

If we want to welcome immigrants to our country and help them to fit in, how does the Spanish pages hurt that goal, doesn't it help them to become more comfortable?

Thank you for keeping it on the issue of the spanish pages, I appreciate that.

29 November 2007 at 11:59 a.m.

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grannyrett (Anonymous) says…

Wow! How did I miss that poll? Bryce, you are missing my point. When I was ask if I spoke Spanish, I was offended. I know quite a few women in this county who speak Tagalog. I know quite a few people in this county who are deaf. I wasn't ask if I could converse in sign language-I can. If I had been ask if I could speak a foreign language, I wouldn't have been offended-I remember quite a bit of my high school Russian, which I got to use when I was at my brother-in-laws house in Oregon. I have a sister-in-law who is from the Philippines, and have never heard her speak anything other than English. My three nephews only know English. I don't think people from another country should give up all their cultures. I think that if they want to come to this country, they should be a part of this country. That includes-learning the language , learning the customs, and making yourself a productive part of this country. I am not anti-Mexican. I am against anyone who comes into this country-by any means-over any border-across any ocean-that does not have the right to be in this country. My sister-in-law last summer traded her green card for American citizenship. She is proud to be an American. Why is it that some people only want to come into this country-have no intention of ever going home-no intention of becoming a citizen, no intention of learning the language, and we are to welcome them with open arms? Why is it so hard for some people to understand that there are some of us that only want the law to be followed? Some states have passed English as the official language laws. What does that say about how the people feel? It's your paper Bryce, and I'm sure you will run it the way you want to-no matter what your poll showed you, but it's every legal citizens country and some of us are tired of having the few tell the many what our opinion should be. We are tired of everything having to be politically correct when it goes against our basic beliefs. That's it-I'm not going to say anymore on this subject-I'm done. Oh, by the way-Merry Christmas everyone.

29 November 2007 at 5:48 p.m.

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grannyrett (Anonymous) says…

I think I am just going to set up my blog page. If they shut it down, so be it. I'm just tired of being told I'm wrong. Maybe I'm just tired. I feel like the minority majority, if you know what I mean

29 November 2007 at 9:34 p.m.

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grannyrett (Anonymous) says…

No, dang it. If these pages are just printed in English, it is an incentive to learn the language. If we continue to print papers in Spanish, what incentive does it give to learn English? The language of this country is English. If you wish to become a citizen of this country, you must learn to speak its language. If there is no need to do something, 95% of us will not do it. It is only when the need arises, that we will do things, learn things, and become productive. I have known women who have had children born in this country, who are now grandmothers who do not speak English. Where is the need? When does this stop? I will not change any one's mind, but I will voice my opinion. That is what this forum is for. That is why Bryce's last line in his post asks-“What do you think” Well Bryce, you are hearing what I think, and what native thinks, and what anyone else who wants to post here thinks. You ask for an opinion, and you are getting it. It may not be politically correct, but, I am not politically correct. I am a citizen of this country. I am offended by the politically correct . If I were going to “bash” someone on this post, it would not be our southern neighbors, it would be our politicans who cannot seem to understand that the laws we have are fine-will work and there are is no need for the same law to be written over and over again.

29 November 2007 at 10:50 p.m.

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grannyrett (Anonymous) says…

Native- I can count on you. Gee, what a warm, fuzzy feeling that gives me. Notice it's only you, me and Bryce on this post? Think nobody else cares about it, or is it that nobody else checks out these blogs? Oh well. We do what we must do.

30 November 2007 at 3:50 p.m.

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bjacobson (Bryce Jacobson) says…

I have heard your point, and I appreciate your opinion. I still believe that business owners have a financial opportunity that they were taking advantage of in asking potential candidates if they speak spanish, because that is what their customer base was needing. I guarantee you that if any other language was prominent enough they would ask that of candidates as well.

You are correct that 47 of 10,000 is probably 1/2 a percent, but 47 out of 356 that responded to the survey, is about 13%. There are many things printed in the Craig Daily Press such as comics, NASCAR pages, Dear Abby that maybe, (I don't know, maybe higher maybe lower) that 13% of the readers read.

I am going to continue this blog for a couple more days but move onto something else next week. Thanks for your participation.

30 November 2007 at 6:47 p.m.

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grannyrett (Anonymous) says…

Bryce-I don't know why you ask the question in the first place. You got your answer in your poll, and you don't care what we think. You are going to do what you want to do. BTW, do you ask all your employees if they can speak spanish? Just wondering.

1 December 2007 at 3:33 p.m.

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bjacobson (Bryce Jacobson) says…

I do care what you think, I can't promise you that anything will change immediately, but I do wonder what people think. My hope is that people will see my point, as you wish that people will see yours. I don't expect to change your mind, but I am hopeful that through this conversation I can understand your point better and you mine. No, I do not ask my employees if they can speak Spanish. When a candidate applies for a job, if they can speak another language other than English, they do list that as a skill.

6 December 2007 at 8:27 a.m.

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Taylor (Anonymous) says…

Granny - I think the reason there are not many comments on this blog is that no one reads the blog - I know that is my case. If you had not made the reference on the forum, I would not be here now.

I agree 100% with you and Native. I too welcome legal immigration, but sadly see Craig as a sanctuary for illegals. Great of our paper to cater to the illegals and not give a crap about how the legal citizens feel. This is America, the language is English.

6 December 2007 at 3:24 p.m.

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grannyrett (Anonymous) says…

Thank you Taylor. Please spread the word about this blog. I don't think anyone knows about it. That's why it is safe to put controversial subjects here. Hey Bryce-If you really want the publics opinion on this subject, put it out there where people can see it.

6 December 2007 at 8:19 p.m.

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mamalion (Anonymous) says…

Wow!! I didn't know this was here. Why are they hiding it? Will have to snoop around-it's like a whole hidden world back in this little corner. Agree with granny, native, and Taylor. Especially that it belongs out in the forum section if you want a valid opinion on this subject, but this is a silly way to hide a subject like this and then say-Oh well, nobody cares.

7 December 2007 at 9:21 a.m.

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bjacobson (Bryce Jacobson) says…

The reason that this blog is under blogs is because it is a blog. If it was a community forum it would be under community forums. We are not hiding it. Blogs are new to our site just a couple months ago.

Sorry for the confusion. I want my blog and your blogs under blogs, they are different than a community forum because there is one person responding to questions, rather than a community discussion.

Thanks
Bryce

7 December 2007 at 9:07 p.m.

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jasonbourne (John Kinkaid) says…

Hello Bryce,

I'm sure that your intentions are good and that you mean well.

But the net effect of the Spanish pages is contrary to your stated objectives. They do not contribute to unity, assimilation or real progress for our community or country. It's has roughly the same effect as bi-lingual education. But we can get into that later.

It's not just the Daily Press. It's large companies like Proctor and Gamble and their labeling. Retailers like Target and their signage. The list goes on and on. And I'm disgusted with their greed and lack of ethics.

You print the Daily Press at the reading level of about a fifth grader? Somewhere around there? People must learn English in order to prosper and thrive in our economy. Fluency is a must in order to get ahead. College…..Grad School….Law School or Medical School.

You are just promoting mediocrity and a growing lower class. Housekeepers, gardeners and fast food workers.

Asking newcomers to read at a fifth grade level is not asking too much. And Spanish language pages are absurd.

It used to be that immigrants came legally and wanted to assimilate and pursue the American dream. Now our culture is just spliting apart and fracturing.

I'll leave it at that for now.

10 December 2007 at 7:47 a.m.

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Taylor (Anonymous) says…

Bryce - tell me how non English speaking people are learning to speak English from the Spanish pages? That makes no sense. The bottom line is, this is America. The language is English. You are adding to the feeling that Craig caters to illegals and has become a sanctuary town. I think it is downright wonderful that people come here to make a better life, but they need to assimilate, do things the “American” way. Why should Americans be forced to learn a foreign language in order to communicate in their own country? We are indeed a country of immigrants, but all who have come to America (in the past) have strived to BE Americans, which includes, but is not limited to learning our language.

9 December 2007 at 7:18 p.m.

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bjacobson (Bryce Jacobson) says…

The claim that the Spanish Pages in the Craig Daily Press do not, “They do not contribute to unity, assimilation or real progress for our community or country.” What proof do you have of that. We have a hard time gathering factual data on these pages, hence the lack of factual data. When you make an assumption such as that, what kind of information do you have to back that up.

We have contacts within the non-english speaking community in Craig and Moffat County, they see results from our pages, they see non-english speaking citizens and/or illegal citizens learning to speak english with the assistance of these pages.

I look forward to learning your information.

We do not write our news pages at a 5th grade reading level per say, we write out pages in a language that is understood by our readers. You will see that many of our news stories are written far above a 5th grade level.

The old saying was that newspapers write at a 3rd grade level, but that is not always the case anymore.

I think there are many immigrants that come here legally and illegally that want to assimilate and pursue the American dream, I think that is very evident in this community. It is still happening.

Finally, why are the Spanish pages absurd? What makes them absurd? It is amazing to me that pages written in another language are absurd. I have had people tell me that it angers them so much they won't read the Tuesday paper, and that simply turning the page is not an option. It is my hope that people don't judge the Spanish pages with anger, but with logic, logically are they absurd?

Thanks
Bryce

10 December 2007 at 5:31 a.m.

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jasonbourne (John Kinkaid) says…

Hello Bryce,

Did you write your response at three in the morning? Questions are supposed to be punctuated with question marks at the end. Did you proof your writing at all?

“….many of our news stories are written far above a 5th grade level” You've got to be kidding.

I've lived here 30 years and I have plenty of contacts in the community. I also have two eyes and the power of observation. I know social decay when I see it and it's happening now. And it has been quantified. The social research data is out there. Some of it has been linked on the forum. At the local level….among other indicators….I understand that we are losing a promising young dentist.

jdsd00 is right on.

You also wrote “illegal citizens” Wow.

10 December 2007 at 12:17 a.m.

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jdsd00 (Anonymous) says…

Bryce, I think that people do not like the pages because it makes them feel that they are being over taken by another culture. When anyone comes to the US they should want to become part of OUR culture, giving up their traditions to their old country. It is not just the Daily Press that adds to this feeling.

It comes from everywhere; I can't count all the places that now have two languages; traffic signs, banks, stores, newspapers, radio (KRAI) and TV stations, government offices, hospitals, all consumer products, direction and assembly manuals. It comes from illegal immigration issues, Mexican Independence Day celebrations in the US and reconquista (Google it if you don't know).

I know that businesses make lots of money off Spanish speaking people and this is the major motivator for the dual languages. Your “13%” translates into big numbers for businesses. How much is 13% of the business that you do? When you look at the BIG picture, it seems like we are giving up a lot for just 13% of our income.

There are a lot of Americans that have come from Mexico and other parts of the world. They learned the language and have become great citizens. I think if you are not motivated to learn and use English that the chances are you will not be motivated to be a good upstanding citizen.

I feel that if any person wants to be in the US they need to be a contributing part of our society. I welcome any and all that truly want to be an American and I feel that learning our language is part of being American.

10 December 2007 at 9:29 a.m.

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grannyrett (Anonymous) says…

Many immigrants came to the United States to build a better life for themselves. They left their lives in their native country and came here to become Americans. During World War II, their sons fought and died for this country. You did not see flags from other countries flying over businesses or homes. This is because immigrants wanted to become Americans. They gave up a lot to come here. Now, we have foreign flags everywhere. We have people who have no intention in becoming a citizen of this country. Why do we give them special rights? Every person who came into this country without a visa is breaking the law. Why are they catered to? Every person in this country is required to follow our laws and obey our rules. Just by stepping over the border without the proper documentation they are breaking the law. Maybe laws need to be changed to allow more workers into this country. But until that happens, we need to enforce the laws we have. If we pick and choose what laws we will enforce, then what good are any of our laws? If we will not enforce our immigration laws, then why enforce our murder laws, our civil laws, the laws that make this the great country that it is? All laws were written for a purpose. Even the ones you don't agree with.

11 December 2007 at 6:31 a.m.

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GreyStone (Anonymous) says…

Publishing the Spanish pages is a great community service: if they contain information on English classes provided to legal immigrants living and working in the community, stories detailing ICE roundups of illegal immigrants and examples of what legal action results from being an illegal immigrant, driving without a drivers license or insurance.

12 December 2007 at 10:37 a.m.

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jasonbourne (John Kinkaid) says…

The Spanish pages aren't doing what you suggest.

Perhaps avoiding an ICE roundup.

nothing about assimilating and learning our history, values and ethics and civics.

The pages are absurd.

They will tell you about the next Cinco De Mayo event.

12 December 2007 at 11:47 a.m.

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bjacobson (Bryce Jacobson) says…

Okay, lots of questions.

1) The spanish pages assist someone to learn English because all the stories printed in the Spanish pages are printed in English prior to publication in Spanish. The “English learner” is able to see a sentence, a word or a paragraph in English, then in Spanish. That is where the tool is effective.

2) Jason - No, I did not write my response at three in the morning. I apologize for making a mistake in my response. I can promise you that there will be more mistakes, I am hoping that my message was clearly conveyed so we can stay away from personal attacks and deal with the issue that we are discussing.

3) I hate it when people answer a question with a question, but I have to, I apologize. What special rights do we give them? I am confused by that question.

Now, I have a question for Jason.

Why is it that you continue to tell me how the Spanish Pages are wrong, but won't answer my question? What proof do you have that “they do not contribute to unity, assimilation or real progress for our community or country”? (please not the use of questions marks, I apologize for the error in the previous post.)

Thanks
Bryce

12 December 2007 at 2:22 p.m.

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Taylor (Anonymous) says…

I would like to believe they sit with the English version and Spanish version comparing sentences. One of the chief complaints that I hear is that they will not learn our language and instead, we are giving them everything from government documents to newspapers printed in their language.. If we continue to “cater” to them in this manner, do you think they will even bother to try to learn our language? Why should they? This IS America, not Mexico. If immigrants would show more effort to assimilate, I think they would have an easier time. Some of us have had enough as we feel “some” are just giving our country away to Mexico. I would also point out, this is not a good time in our country to side with the illegal population.