saunders 5 years, 11 months ago on Dave Roberts: Let’s be honest — part 1

Good letter even though I have different opinions on the subject and our opinions of the management at Craig Fire differ. While there are a few errors I think Dave did a good job of researching and listing the issues without insulting those who serve this community on the ground level and work hard to do so.

With that being said I think there are some things that could be clarified.

Bill Johnston had nothing to do with the proposed site it was offered by CNCC and the board is researching the feasibility of how to utilize the property. So much of these discussions have gotten away from that simple fact. They are doing what I commended Dave for doing they are doing the research. You mention that a five story tower is unnecessary so would you support a three story version? Would you support the department purchasing land further west? I am hopeful some of these will be answered in Part 2.

A burn building that complies with the NFPA (National Fire Protection Association) can only use Class A materials basically that means wood. No plastics, couch cushion or diesel. That equates to a much lighter and less toxic smoke more like your average campfire and initial plans for the study placed it well out the range of TMH especially considering our prominent wind direction. Still a valid point and one that should be examined further.

MAZMAT - When you arrived HAZMAT was a completely separate team. It was funded and operated separately from the fire district. That has been changed and HAZMAT is now part of the department. While not a huge change they did speak truthfully.

Confined Space - The department has a ton of SCBA's which can and are used in confined space rescues. They do not use supplied air lines which is what I assume Dave is referring to.

Swift Water Rescue - Boats are usually the third option in a swift water rescue and while tossing stadium seats might not be the plan they do have trained swift water rescue technicians who will lead rescue efforts and they can put rescuer in the water if needed. The department does own water and ice rescue equipment including wet suits, dry suits and ice suits as well as a small ice rescue boat.

Paramedics - Being a paramedic is tough in Northwest Colorado. I believe we only have 2 in Moffat County that practice locally. No EMT from basic level to paramedic is allowed to transfer patient care to a provider with lower certification. That means if a patient is being treated by a paramedic for even the most minor injury that paramedic has a duty to stay with that patient until they reach definitive care or one of the other two paramedics is on scene and can take over treatment. On a fire scene or man power intensive call that could be difficult. Currently the department has a EMT-Intermediates a level matched by every ambulance that responds from TMH.


saunders 5 years, 11 months ago on Mike Wilson: ‘Give me a break’

My Rocky III tribute as Apollo Creed once said “Ding Ding”

Your first four facts are nothing but you trying to goat someone into a fight. I am sorry you cannot see these amazing men and women as I do. Where you see arrogance I see pride in a community and a calling to serve. Where you see distain I see comparison and caring for those in need I am also blessed to see the pain they carry with them long after the worst of calls are done.

Your 20 years of spending idea holds little water when you consider they were funded with a mere 1.997 mills until the 2006 2.6 mill increase. Also remember that the mill prior to 2006 was one of the lowest in the state. Even the current rate is considerably lower than most fire districts.

There are new trucks just as they promised when they outlined the capital replacement plan. In fact the 2012 capital replacement project was originally set for remodeling the current station. The board is merely exploring options right now.

You encourage the Tea Party to take this on and champion a reduction to a level lower than that of 2006. Yet you yourself will do what? I am still waiting to hear if you will attend the board meeting?

Our district has to have a set amount in pension for volunteers. Not a choice. It is mandated in the Colorado Volunteer Pension Act. They also receive excellent death benefits if they were to die in the line of duty. You know what the beauty is JTF if you want you too can apply and if you make it the 20 years you can receive the same pension. You try to spin it like this is some secret when in fact it is and should be a selling point for recruiting future volunteers.

You can call a volunteer anything you want part time; paid on call whatever the fact remains they are still volunteers. Whenever a call comes in each and every one of them chooses to go. It is by no means required for them to respond to emergencies.

Just The extra exclamation points make it more fact like!!!!!!!!


saunders 5 years, 11 months ago on Mike Wilson: ‘Give me a break’

You had to know this was coming...

Mike it is an articulating aerial platform not a bucket, ladder, straight stick, famdoozlewhoopper or whatever else you attempt to call it but here is a novel idea while you are hanging out in Washington research the advantages of the articulating platform as opposed to what our neighbors to the east purchased. You should also look into another selling point one that makes this particular apparatus worth every penny. It is referred to as short jacking but for the ex fire board member I will keep it simple. You can use this aerial platform even when you can't extend the outriggers fully. A handy little thing on our narrow streets and tight fits at places like Craig Station.

Mike it sounds to me like you were around during the good ole days when SCBA's were laughed at, equipment was beyond sub par and you were tucked safely in your board meeting while putting the lives of brave men and women at risk with poor equipment. Wow way to go! Won't you please come back and run for a board position on that platform?

With your ideas on a recent fire it is easy to see you still believe that firefighter safety is secondary to monetary values but before I comment further would you be so kind as to post the link to the article and fire you are referring too.

ranger520 according to: Structural Firefighting: Strategies and Tactics By Bernard J. Klaene, Russell E. Sanders Page 276 (that is called a reference for all you opinion only bloggers)

during the period 1996-2005, 41.5% of all firefighter fatalities occurred in residential properties, mostly in one and two family dwellings

but hey I am sure we should all defer to ranger520 and his vast knowledge of the American fire service and the appropriate level of training for our volunteers.


saunders 5 years, 11 months ago on Bill Snare: Read the fine print

@cclarue I stand corrected on that fact. Thanks for the correction.

The mill charged is still 3.497 but the assessment rate is higher. With the current TABOR and Gallagher Amendment that is unfortunately the cost of doing business in Colorado and it makes little sense to blame a small special district for bigger issues at the state level.

Readjusted score - Facts 3 - Saunders 6


saunders 5 years, 11 months ago on Bill Snare: Read the fine print

whoopin the facts continued....

Your Fact: The adrenaline rush is the same, danger is an after thought.

The Fact: Again there are 29 firefighters on the department to assume you know the motivations for them all are laughable and can in no way shape or form be proven and as a result cannot be dis-proven – Again your opinion. SCORE – Facts -1 Saunders - 5

Your Fact: Some, mostly firefighters,and their families, ( saunders) glorify the position of being a fire fighter.

The Fact: They may glorify it and it is well within their right to voice there or my own opinion it is also possible that some don’t glorify the position. How does this pertain to the need of a second station? I would say that is clearly an opinion. SCORE – Facts -1 Saunders - 6

Your Fact: Quote from soon to be Chief Bill Johnston after 911: “After 911 everybody loves firefighters, now is the time to get this mill levy through for a training center, they (the public) wouldn't dare vote against it”.

The Fact: If he said that I would agree it was inappropriate but I would hold off on judgment until I see the source. Until proven SCORE – Facts -1 Saunders - 7

Your Fact: Bil was wrong!!!!!

The Fact: Bil who is this Bil? If you are referring to Bill again I will hold my judgment until I see a source. But I am sure some where sometime a Bil was wrong. SCORE – Facts -2 Saunders - 7

Just for your future reference. fact/fakt/Noun 1. A thing that is indisputably the case. 2. Information used as evidence or as part of a report or news article. Source wikipedia

Just The you just got owned Facts


saunders 5 years, 11 months ago on Bill Snare: Read the fine print

I accept your challenge. I will dispute the facts and not the fact that I just don't like you.

Your Fact: $23.00 does not buy a Fire Station.

True but add all those $23.00 up and it will. In fact in adds up to the annual budget of the fire department. SCORE – Facts -1 Saunders - 0

Your Fact: The ones that loose everytime there is a mill levy increase is Tri State, Colowyo, Trapper Mine and every business in town that pays 3-4 times the amount of the residential property owner.

I don’t believe Colowyo is in the fire district and I know it supports its own ambulance service that works with both Craig Fire and TMH covering a section of Highway near the mine. Businesses are taxed the same 3.497 mills that everyone else is. Mills are based off assessed value so how exactly are they charged 3-4 times more? SCORE – Facts -1 Saunders - 1

Your Fact: Many jobs in other sectors are affected when people like the fire department abuse the system.

I would like to challenge your source on this fact. Can you provide data to support it? Without you proving it I cannot dispute it. I would say that the fire department pays 29 paid on call firefighters who spend those dollars locally at businesses. Craig Fire also purchases supplies and equipment from local business supporting the local economy. The payroll and bills of the department are public record. SCORE – Facts -1 Saunders - 2

Your Fact: The schools and fire department have cost our industries millions $$$$ with bond issues and mill levy increases!!!

School district and fire departments across the nation have cost industries millions. Are you saying our mill levy is higher than the national average? Please provide your source and or clarification? SCORE – Facts -1 Saunders - 3

Your Fact: Fire fighters fight fires for the fun and thrill of it, no different than riding a moto cross bike. (Only someone else gets to pay for their fun, Taxpayers!!!!)

There are 29 firefighters on the department to assume you know the motivation for them all is laughable and can in no way shape or form be proven and as a result cannot be dis-proven – Your opinion. SCORE – Facts -1 Saunders - 4


saunders 5 years, 11 months ago on Fire Board addresses proposed station No. 2

It sounds to me like facts is insinuating that the the fire board has embezzled funds to circumvent the system and ranger520 has repeatedly made libel remarks about Bill Johnston and his character. Blogs do not protect you or your identity from legal action.

Just the libelous facts


saunders 5 years, 11 months ago on Fire Board addresses proposed station No. 2

Correct. The fire district will not be asking for additional monies from the taxpayers. This is all part of the capital improvement dollars from the 2006 mill levy increase.


saunders 5 years, 11 months ago on Fire Board addresses proposed station No. 2

ranger520 it is a stretch when you say "They would simply do what the tax payers have said very exactly and many times and just forget about this unneeded waste of money."

Unless you believe that the opinions of mostly anonymous bloggers whether they are for or against the station constitute the opinion of the fire district and that the Daily Press Question of the Week while entertaining can be considered an accurate polling?

The only true and honest voice of the taxpayers came in the elections that passed the levy increase and elected the board members.


saunders 5 years, 11 months ago on Bill Snare: Read the fine print

You left out the most important fact of all.

Will you attend the next fire board meeting and voice your opinions (facts) or will you continue to live your life on the sidelines and complain about those who get in the game?

I am betting on the latter.

After 185 posts you have shown a willingness to chime in on everything but do you do anything?

Just The I will only blog about it Facts