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Tom Gray, in doing his job, asks himself every day, "what should we cut?"
I'd like to see you call him an American hater to his face, Patrick.
Patrick, as I told Rick, I respect anyone's opinion who can explain to me why you feel that way. One only needs to illustrate that they've thought about what they're saying. I have given you ample opportunities to show this. Any answer would have been fine. Yet, you refuse.
Running this country is not simple. Every decision is a tradeoff. Every action has some benefits and some cost. This is why I ask "what would you like to cut?" I'm asking you to show me that you understand everything has a consequence. However, you show absolutely no understanding of this concept. Again, complaining is very easy; what's difficult is deciding what to do about it.
Your insistence that anyone who questions your opinions "hates America" is beyond pitiful. You obviously play that card when you're in way over your head. I've asked you simple questions and you won't even answer those. They're not hard-DONTREAD and taxslave answered it quite well. Instead, you question my patriotism. That's very classy, Patrick. I'm trying to have a discussion here that could move the country into figuring out some of these problems TOGETHER. You can't even participate in an intelligent discussion without labeling someone an idiot or an America hater. I live in America because I love this country. I try to get a discussion going to improve our country (you obviously think something is wrong, as you whine on this website every day), and you insult me. Who hates America again?
America was not founded by fist-pounding whiners. The greatest Americans do not throw temper tantrums and call names. They propose SOLUTIONS and work to get those solutions in place. You're very good at throwing stones, but stone throwers don't build it up, they bring America down.
You say you feel bad about your first post, but then you draft another one that's even worse, questioning my patriotism. I chuckle at your ridiculous insults in your first post comparing my intelligence to mud. Anyone who reads this forum sees how you can't back up your trash talking. You can talk that talk, Patrick, but you can't walk the walk. Your cheap insults show everyone on this forum that you're an embarrassment; a windbag who can pound his fist better than anyone, but when its time to sit down at the table and work out solutions, you're completely lost.
Like they say, an empty drum bangs the loudest.
That does answer my question, Rick. I appreciate it. You've shown that you've given this issue some rational thought, which is all it takes for me to respect your opinion.
So would you support an infrastructure tax if it did go to maintaining infrastructure? Our infrastructure has been neglected and is crumbling around us. I don't see any alternative to spending some money to fix it, but I agree the spending needs strict oversight and our state politicians should look to the Western Slope for projects instead of just the Front Range. We also need to get our communications infrastructure up to speed. Other countries are doing a better job of installing broadband, which puts us at a competitive disadvantage in a global economy which is all about information technology.
I agree that people on welfare should be required to do SOMETHING. Can't we ask them to pick up trash or do some other menial labor? I don't think we should get rid of welfare, but maybe we could make some changes to try to not reward lazy behavior.
Again, that's for the answers TREAD.
Also, thanks to taxslave for his very specific answers. This is the kind of thing that gets a real constructive discussion going. Now we can start talking about what to do about this problem.
Okay, Patrick, I'll play along that we can have "reasonable" taxes and still have adequate government services. The only way this would even be remotely possible is if we weren't spending billions a week on a war in Iraq. I'd be interested in hearing your opinion on that, especially, if you think this war was justified, how do you think we should pay for it?
So here's an easy one: If our spending is "ungodly," what would you cut? Can you answer this one or just hurl more insults?
Point taken, granny. Other tea partiers were against "high" taxes, at least their signs said so. But let's discuss bail-outs, since that's what bothers you.
The problem is, we don't see what would have happen if we didn't have TARP or the stimulus package. Yes, a lot of businesses would have gone under. That's not necessarily horrible, but this could have been a very big deal and pushed us into a multi-decade depression (see Japan). With most of our major banks under, there would be no one to lend money at all the economy would have ground to a screeching halt. A lot of Americans are employed because of our auto industries, and the repercussions could have put our unemployment in double digits. I read a few experts say that if unemployment gets above 10%, we're in deep, deep trouble.
I don't have a PhD in economics, so I listen to those who do. Late last year, I read a dozen or more economists and financial experts who said the government had to do SOMETHING or we were in substantial trouble. I defer to their judgment.
Bail-outs stink. Who wants to bail out greedy failures? Problem is, the alternative might have been even worse.
Good explanation, James. I particularly appreciate your consistency in pointing the finger at both parties. However, I don't think you answered Ms. Villard's deeper question. She mentioned that she and her family enjoyed some government services such as a swimming pool and asked how a government could function without taxes.
Complaining about taxes and spending is easy. No one likes to pay taxes. What's difficult is actually providing viable solutions. I've asked this question several times on this forum but still haven't gotten an answer. I'll give it another shot: What specific government programs do you recommend be cut? Taxes in the US are already the lowest of any developed nation. Apparently you're not in favor of deficit spending, so we would have to cut costs drastically. Do you think the government should abdicate its responsibility to maintain infrastructure? Public schools? What about subsidies for oil and gas companies and ranching on public lands? How can our government provide basic services by taxing even less?
"The economy is on the rocks.
The middle class, of which America relies upon, is evaporating.
Unemployment is on the rise.
The debt is skyrocketing.
Taxes are high."
5 out of 6 isn't bad. Taxes are not high. Taxes are extremely low compared to other developed countries and taxes are low compared to other times in US history.
Patrick, I'm glad folks are conceding that this is about both parties and their respective leaders. That's a consistent argument. However, as you said, I sure don't see many folks from the other side of the political fence at these rallies. I'm not aware of any Democrats supporting or attending these rallies. I think that's because some of the forces high up organizing the tea parties are traditional Republican big shots. FreedomWorks is a right-wing think tank that lead the tea party charge. FreedomWorks is bankrolled by right wing billionaires, corporate interests, and Richard Armey, the former House majority leader, who helped facilitate the largest budget deficit under any president in history. Plus, this was pushed by every pundit on Fox News. That's a combination very hard for Dems to swallow as a non-partisan activity.
I disagree that the Boston Tea Party was not about representation. It was more about representation than taxes. The Tea Act of 1773 actually lowered the price of imported tea. The protesters were concerned that a foreign government was taxing them without representation and saw this as an infringement on colonial rights.
I hear a few people from these rallies say that they don't feel like they're being represented by politicians. Well, I can understand that. I'm of the liberal persuasion and was born and raised in a very conservative state. My US Senators, Representative, as well as my state Representatives did not represent my views. This isn't some gross injustice. It's just how our system was designed to work. It stinks to be in the minority sometimes, but this is not some conspiracy or travesty anything contrary to our constitution.
I'm still interested in what some of you would recommend as far as cutting taxes. Which government programs would go? Apparently you're not in favor of deficit spending, so we would have to cut costs drastically. We already have one the lowest tax rate of any developed nation. How can our government provide basic services by taxing even less?
Tea partiers, I hope we can have a constructive discussion about your concerns. I have a couple questions. I echo Ms. Villard's question: What exactly WAS this demonstration about? Spending? Taxes? Lack of representation? Abortion? Gun rights?
I have respect for anyone willing to speak their mind, regardless of the cause. However, I never have a ton of respect for people who complain but offer no solutions. So I want to provide that chance to tea partiers now. What would you do if you were president? If you lower taxes, what government programs are you going to axe? Do you think the government should abdicate its responsibility to maintain infrastructure? Public schools? What about subsidies for oil and gas companies and ranching on public lands?
DONTTREADONME, I definitely agree many items on your list make a mockery of our constitution. I especially like these:
These actions, as well as many more items on your list, were propagated under the leadership of George W. Bush. So again I ask, where were the tea party rallies last year? I guess I should have organized one. But I appreciate your consistency in realizing that for most of these items, both parties are to blame.
Regarding vehicle registration and other taxes or government fees: I'm not a fan of giving my hard-earned money to the government. Who is? Nobody likes paying taxes. But some taxes are necessary.
Do you agree that it is the government's responsibility to build and maintain our transportation infrastructure? This is a widely acceptable role of our local, state, and national governments. So how should the government pay for repairing our roads? You complain when they tax, you complain when the increase fees. That's fine, but again, what are we supposed to do to generate the money necessary for road maintenance?
Last login: Wednesday, May 30, 2012
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