McGruber 5 years, 3 months ago on Don and Judy Laib: Teaching of the Quran

als362, You do not have to feel sorry for me. I have a wonderful life and enjoy every day. I just put away childish things a long time ago.



McGruber 5 years, 4 months ago on Don and Judy Laib: Teaching of the Quran

There is no God, no Santa Claus, no Easter Bunny, no Tooth Fairy and no Big Foot. Sorry to break it to you.


McGruber 5 years, 4 months ago on Cheryl Ivy: Salvation with Jesus

There is no God, no Santa Claus, no Easter Bunny, no Tooth Fairy and no Big Foot. Sorry to break it to you.


McGruber 5 years, 4 months ago on Jane Yazzie: Haiti group needs help

America is supposed to be the good guys. We stand up for the people who can not stand up for themselves (at home or abroad). If you do not believe that then you do not believe in idea of America.


McGruber 5 years, 4 months ago on Patrick Wayne Germond: Tea Party amazing

Relax, You guys gave yourselves that name before someone finally realized the other connotation. If you can't find any humor in that then you take yourself way too seriously.

Ill take the tea party seriously when they denounce the members of their organization that are actively advocating violence against their fellow citizens and promoting hatred against minorities and homosexuals. People are going to be killed.


McGruber 5 years, 4 months ago on John Williams: Consequences of actions

I am just as disgusted about the bail outs for the fat cat bankers as you are. TARP was initiated under Bush but it has certainly been continued under Obama. If a business fails then it should be allowed to fail. No disagreement there.

As to your other point, in my opinion the Federal Government is the people. If the representatives of the people institute a policy then by de-facto it is the will of the people. If not those politicians will be voted out. Yes its an imperfect system and the government does often overreach. Do I aways trust them? No way.

Personally, I'll take the tradeoff. I want somebody to be checking if the food I am eating is safe, if the prescription drugs I am taking are not laced with rat poison, somebody needs to make sure the roads are safe, and planes are not falling out of the sky.

Representative government is a funny thing, as much as people complain about the government they hardy ever vote out their own incumbent representatives. Why is this? Because they like their representative just not other people's representatives. If you live in Denver people like Ritter if you live in Colorado Springs you like Doug Lambert.

I think the fundamental question is if you want to be part of a functioning complex society or not? For example the government requires people to buy auto insurance. You could certainly argue that they should not do that but I think most people have decided we want other drivers to have insurance. This is an imperfect analogy to health care reform but the underlying fundamental premise is the same.

We decided we wanted this as a group. We could all go our own ways and live like wolves and compete for a limited amount of resources. In the end that is a recipe for disaster.

The world is a big complicated place with lots of different people and philosophies. The only way we can deal with these monumental kinds of problems is if we work together to reach some kind of consensus or at least compromise.

Ill i'm really trying to say is that in a country that practices democracy sometimes the majority wants things that the minority does not. Its how it works. You may think its unconstitutional but others would argue that the constitution is an evolving document that changes over time.

Finally, its interesting that you quote the bible. Now I am certainly not a religious person, but I think its pretty clear that Jesus would be considered a socialist in todays political context.

appreciate the debate (ps I do not consider my self a socialist)


McGruber 5 years, 4 months ago on John Williams: Consequences of actions

Taxslave, I could provide you with tons of data, polls, ect that prove people want health care reform in this county and support this bill. However, I believe this would most likely be an exercise in futility. Its pretty clear that you and Mr. Williams and many others view the world through a Fox News/Glen Beck/libertarian viewpoint which is fine and your right as a citizen. The problem with this is that we just would not be able to have a rational discussion if we can not agree on a set of facts.

For example I would say that the World Health Reports ranking the US 37th behind Chile and Dominica is more legitimate than the views of 10 people on a cruise but I digress.

My point is that there are clearly people who support health care reform in this country. Stating otherwise is just disingenuous. I would even venture to say that a large percentage of people who do not support the current bill do so because it does not go far enough (ie public option, tort reform ect.).

The world is not going to explode with the passage of this bill. All this whining, complaing, and fear mongering by the far right is really childish. You lost this round get over it.

We live in a constitutional republic. Elections have consequences. A majority of the American people decided that they wanted the country to go in a more progressive direction during the last election. Health care reform is a progressive priority. It always amazes me when conservatives go crazy because a Democrat actually does something progressive. What did they think they were going to do? Nominate Rush Limbaugh to the Supreme Court?

When George W. Bush was elected I never expected him to work on health care. His priorities were invading a country that had nothing to do with 9/11, torturing people, eavesdropping on American citizens without a warrant, giving tax breaks to his rich buddies, gutting financial regulations, making us scared of gay people, and making it easier to pollute the air we breath and water we drink. I and many others did not like this direction so we organized and chose another.

Mr Williams is absolutely correct in that the only polls that matter are elections. So if the American people are upset with Obama and the Democratic party over health care then they will vote them out of office and the pendulum will swing again, until then suck it up and get over it. There are people out there that disagree with your viewpoint and sometimes they are in the majority thats America.