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I totally agree there is a certain risk in anything you do, but why ADD another risk out on our streets? This risk, to you AND us, is not there presently, please tell me a good reason to add it?
The whole problem is that the group presenting this may be responsible and safe, what they are not considering is that the rest of those using them will not be.
By their reason, some magic stroke of a pen will make every user behave and follow the law, which will NOT happen.
Wake up and come on over to reality, "saving gas" and reducing parking are not good enough reasons to let ATV's on our streets.
Come up with a better one and I'll listen.
I did not know him, but I always looked forward to watching him and the 'Dogs chew up the field every Friday night.
You are a champion, rest in peace.
Mr. White, it is not you that I am worried about, I believe you and your group want this to work and will do the right things to make it happen. It is the lawless offenders who do not care that will mow someone over and then run from the scene, or the 16 year old's who barely know the rules of the road in a car, the drunks who think it is an easier way to get home from the bar, it is the ones who just do not give a fly one way or another about the law.
As far as penalties go, I'd say a $1000 fine and a 2-4 point deduction from your DL would be a good start, but I doubt even that will be enough of a deterrent. Think about those who do meth, for example. The threat of losing everything they own and everyone they love, going to prison/rehab, health problems and hefty fines still does not deter them from committing a crime and using/dealing their poison that they fully well know is just that...poison. That is the lawlessness I am referring to and those are the ones that will ruin it for people like you that are responsible...it's the American way.
Maybe, and I don't really know..I'm guessing here, that if this ordinance were treated like say...the CCW process, I would think differently. They just don't issue them to anyone with a gun, they should not issue a permit to anyone with an ATV. Do you have an idea of what parameters of inspection they will look at? There are a couple killer(and I mean deadly)ATV's out on the market right now, are they going to give them the OK? Some more definition of the process might make it easier to swallow, but...with all due respect sir, I'm with als362, I am not convinced.
Thank you for the information and the websites, I checked them out. The issue at hand is ATV's, not bicycles.
By the looks of it, ATV injuries from 1999 to 2007 almost doubled, 82,000 in 1999...150,900 in 2007, my math tells me that is at least a 90% increase in the injuries caused by ATV's since 1999, but then again I was never very good at math. The death rate follows the same path, 398 in 1999, 750 in 2007, again, nearly double. This report is two years old, would be interesting to see the current stats...I don't feel very encouraged though by the staggering increase within 8 years alone. Why is that not enough proof to make anyone realize just how dangerous these vehicles are? I am stumped by the lack of understanding.
No one is "raining on your parade" Mntmaker, if you choose to be uncivil about the other side of an issue important to people, I am through communicating with you.
Redneck, gas is not that expensive(and no, I'm not rich either), not wanting to fire up the truck is a poor excuse to ADD another vehicle on an already crowded infrastructure. I do like some of your thinking regarding testing and whatnot, but it is the high schooler's who will assuredly act like fools, just like they do in their cars right now. You cannot tell me that high school kids are responsible drivers, 1 out of 10 MAYBE.
What really needs to happen first before I step off of this is for Colorado to come into the real world and repeal the helmet law(or lack thereof), that was the single dumbest decision ever made. Fortunately, someone is working on that and I hope to see some change very soon, at least someone is using their head...so to speak.
That would be a good start, then we could EASE into allowing other off-road vehicles on-road, the laws and requirements need some serious going over.
Kids zoom around the Sandrocks, Jeep runs, alleyways and even streets on motorcycles and ATV's RIGHT NOW, present day, I don't know how you can miss it. A stroke of a pen will not keep them off the streets, there are not enough cops to keep them off the streets...they are gone by the time you report them and back out 15 minutes later when the law is gone.
It's common sense, they WERE NOT designed to be used on paved streets and highways (or grocery aisles;), if they were, don't ya think this would have been allowed LONG AGO.
Sumarjn, thank you for your post, it just solidifies the reason to defeat this idea, what a tragedy. Hence my stance against this.
Thank you for your respectful replies to my questions, I do appreciate civil conversation and respectful behavior, my apologies if I seem out of line. I get over passionate about subjects I view as dangerous without considering the bigger picture, I see things differently than your average citizen by living it everyday. I believe you and your friends are responsible riders, I do not believe that others are, responsibility is a shrinking percentage in this country and it is my opinion that bad things are to come because of this.
Safety of the rest of the community who do not ride ATV's (but will have to be on the lookout for them) is not being considered in this deal and the uneducated and uncaring (the majority) are the ones that will make it miserable and dangerous. My street is a prime example, I was not stretching the truth about how people act on ATV's, that is how I base my feelings along with the experiences over the last 22 years. I am terrified some idiot is going to plow over my daughter while out "having fun" on a city street with their toy. God forbid that happens as I will for the first time be incarcerated in prison for the rest of my life, eye for an eye.
Maybe if there were a helmet law, mandatory training, an increase in the age from 16 to 18, lower speed limits, daytime operation only, requirement of street tires, point deduction as well as very stiff fines for the idiots...I might loosen my grip on this, however wishful thinking is all that is, a utopian thought. Do you know Colorado is one of 4 states without a mandatory helmet law (meaning the other 46 have one), talk about living in the stone ages.
However this all pans out, remember this:
If any ATV driver injuries anyone in my family, not only should you have good insurance, but you better get a good lawyer as well...that is not a threat, that is reality.
Don't tell me you are ready to lose it all over "having fun"?
The draft ordinance says a max. of 35mph. Where, other than on Victory between city market and Finley lane is the speed limit 35mph?
740 bicycle accidents, were they all on the road, or were some of them off road? 760 ATV accidents, same question? Please provide your source so I can read it. Thank you.
This excerpt was found in the Journal of the Wilderness Medical Society and written by Dr. Allan Reishus, local stats:
"Horse-related injuries declined during the study period, most likely as a result of the decreasing use of horses for big game hunting. In the first 4 years of the study, 15 fractures were reported to have resulted from interaction with horses, while in the most recent 4 years, just 2 fractures were related to the use of horses. All-terrain vehicle (ATV) use increased markedly during the study period. Combined ATV and other motor vehicle injuries increased from 21 in the first 4 years of the study to 25 in the most recent 4 years. Gunshot wounds (GSWs) accounted for 4 (<1%) of the ED visits."
ATV's have virtually replaced horses and are more dangerous than the guns themselves...again...this is off road, these stats will only increase by allowing them on city streets where it is more crowded than the forest and where more moving objects will be encountered.
All of you who are in favor of this are missing the bigger picture by a longshot, if you ask me, you are being selfish. I am worried that one of my family or friends will be plowed into or over by some drunk who thought riding the ATV to the bar and sneaking it home is a good way to go. Think of the safety of others instead of your own self gratification, not everyone is a responsible rider.
Last login: Monday, April 13, 2015
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