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Thank you for your respectful replies to my questions, I do appreciate civil conversation and respectful behavior, my apologies if I seem out of line. I get over passionate about subjects I view as dangerous without considering the bigger picture, I see things differently than your average citizen by living it everyday. I believe you and your friends are responsible riders, I do not believe that others are, responsibility is a shrinking percentage in this country and it is my opinion that bad things are to come because of this.
Safety of the rest of the community who do not ride ATV's (but will have to be on the lookout for them) is not being considered in this deal and the uneducated and uncaring (the majority) are the ones that will make it miserable and dangerous. My street is a prime example, I was not stretching the truth about how people act on ATV's, that is how I base my feelings along with the experiences over the last 22 years. I am terrified some idiot is going to plow over my daughter while out "having fun" on a city street with their toy. God forbid that happens as I will for the first time be incarcerated in prison for the rest of my life, eye for an eye.
Maybe if there were a helmet law, mandatory training, an increase in the age from 16 to 18, lower speed limits, daytime operation only, requirement of street tires, point deduction as well as very stiff fines for the idiots...I might loosen my grip on this, however wishful thinking is all that is, a utopian thought. Do you know Colorado is one of 4 states without a mandatory helmet law (meaning the other 46 have one), talk about living in the stone ages.
However this all pans out, remember this:
If any ATV driver injuries anyone in my family, not only should you have good insurance, but you better get a good lawyer as well...that is not a threat, that is reality.
Don't tell me you are ready to lose it all over "having fun"?
The draft ordinance says a max. of 35mph. Where, other than on Victory between city market and Finley lane is the speed limit 35mph?
740 bicycle accidents, were they all on the road, or were some of them off road? 760 ATV accidents, same question? Please provide your source so I can read it. Thank you.
This excerpt was found in the Journal of the Wilderness Medical Society and written by Dr. Allan Reishus, local stats:
"Horse-related injuries declined during the study period, most likely as a result of the decreasing use of horses for big game hunting. In the first 4 years of the study, 15 fractures were reported to have resulted from interaction with horses, while in the most recent 4 years, just 2 fractures were related to the use of horses. All-terrain vehicle (ATV) use increased markedly during the study period. Combined ATV and other motor vehicle injuries increased from 21 in the first 4 years of the study to 25 in the most recent 4 years. Gunshot wounds (GSWs) accounted for 4 (<1%) of the ED visits."
ATV's have virtually replaced horses and are more dangerous than the guns themselves...again...this is off road, these stats will only increase by allowing them on city streets where it is more crowded than the forest and where more moving objects will be encountered.
All of you who are in favor of this are missing the bigger picture by a longshot, if you ask me, you are being selfish. I am worried that one of my family or friends will be plowed into or over by some drunk who thought riding the ATV to the bar and sneaking it home is a good way to go. Think of the safety of others instead of your own self gratification, not everyone is a responsible rider.
It is not going to make a difference what you try to say, they deem them safe and harmless no matter who is driving it and by some magic stroke of a pen, everyone will follow the rules and behave, which those of us living in reality know will not happen. I did some searching and found some interesting facts...I know it is in Oregon, but this is the result of Trauma center visits by ATV and ORMC(off road motorcycles). I find it quite shocking the percentage jump in the visits as a result of these vehicles. Keep in mind that this is off road and does not include city streets, which IMO would make the stats worse:
"Patients injured riding off-road vehicles and needing treatment in Oregon’s trauma centers
increased 76%. Sixty percent of patients were injured riding an ATV, and 35% were injured
riding an ORMC. Children (aged younger than 15 years) were 20% and 23% of patients in the
earlier and later years. At Oregon’s University-based Level I trauma center, in the years 2002 to
2005, more than twice as many patients needed tertiary care for severe injuries caused by
off-road vehicle crashes compared with the previous 4 years.
CONCLUSIONS: There has been an alarming increase in the number of both ATV and ORMC riders requiring treatment in Oregon’s trauma centers. Surgeons need to join a coalition of health care providers,
citizens and public officials to implement a comprehensive injury-prevention response to this. Particularly disturbing was an escalation in the number of children sustaining death and injury while riding either ATVs or ORMCs."
The council is not going to make it better by allowing it. People, less those of you who ride responsibly(a small minority), are going to see this as a free for all and an easy way to get home from the bar, party or whatever else besides 'running to the store" or "going a mile and a half to work".
There are hundreds of people around here who own them, 10 of you will do it right, the other 200 won't. Those are the ones who will cause injury or death to themselves and others and they are the ones I am concerned about, not you that will ride responsibly:
"The CPSC(Consumer Product Safety Commision) estimates that in the US, over a recent 6-year period, numbers of four-wheel vehicles doubled from 3.1 million to 6.9 million."
If six years ago 300 people in Craig owned one, 600 do now, according to the above logic.
For the last time, if people used ATV's appropriately, I would have no concern, the majority of people I see riding them are going balls out, no helmet, no regard for their safety or the safety of those around them. There are a lot of people in our neighborhood who have them and they are complete idiots when riding them...no helmet, flip-flops, t-shirt doing 40mph down a residential street with a rider clinging on for dear life. What makes anyone think an ordinance making it legal to ride them will change that behavior? It won't.
Those wanting to "go to the store" or work are a small minority compared to the fools who ride like complete maniacs on them, those are the ones who ruin it for everyone and they are the ones who will kill or maim someone. It is because of them that I am against this. Any other vehicle ALREADY on the road DOES NOT COUNT, they have been there for decades and therefore are exempt from this discussion.
Nobody can come up with a reasonable, common sense answer to allow this, therefore I am against this and that is where I will stand, end of my portion of this discussion.
750 Hospital Loop Road, just in case you need us. We'll keep the light on.
I do not have "attitude" about sharing the road, as an avid mountain biker I can be found riding the roads, streets and what little trail we have that is ride-able and as a driver I give room to others using the system. As an ATV driver, you would not be an "enemy", rather an ADDITION to an already crowded road system. If this ordinance is passed, I will give you room as well, I would have no choice in the matter and I'm not losing everything over hitting one of you because of some ill perceived "attitude".
As far as your big truck sitting in the driveway...wait until some distracted teenager creams you on your little ATV, that big truck might have spared you injury...or worse. I'd feel much safer encased in steel with crush space to soften the collision.
We just don't need MORE vehicles on the road already crowded with dozens of other things that we are already having to watch out for, I listed a few in a post above.
Why is this so hard to understand?
Still no common sense answer to why this should be legalized, leaving a safer vehicle in the driveway to ride an unsafe one(which was not designed for street use) is not common sense, it is not necessarily your riding ability and habits I am concerned about...it's the other guy.
I'll keep checking back for that reason.
Wow als362, something we can actually agree on.
I do not own an ATV and never will, I have told my daughter that she will be grounded forever if I catch her on one or have a report from a neighbor that she was riding/driving one.
I am NOT against anyone owning one and am NOT trying to stop anyone from riding them, I AM against them being used on city surface streets where they have no business and where the accident rate would be much higher than out in the forest or in the field...where they DO belong.
I am still waiting for that common sense reason to allow this.
Thank you kp81625 and valleylocal, nice to have some support.
MntMaker, I am sorry about your friends, no one should die needlessly and their friends should not have to witness such a tragedy. Motorcycles have been allowed on streets and roads for a very long time, ATV's on surface streets is something new, at least to Craig, so I don't view it as the same thing.
My main point is that it ADDS another vehicle on streets already used by personal cars, trucks, semi's, school buses, ambulances, fire trucks, police cars, street sweepers, mopeds, scooters, motorcycles, kids on bikes/skateboards/blades(yes, they are out in the street), adults on bikes, pedestrians, throw in dogs, cats, deer, cows, horses, squirrels...why add ANOTHER hazard to look out for in an already crowded environment?
My outlook can be changed when it makes good common sense. I'm still listening and waiting for that good common sense reason to allow this.
MntMaker, I work in a hospital, I worked Respiratory in and out of the ER for 10 years and have been in the O.R. for the other 8, when on call I am part of the trauma team that is assembled when needed. I personally knew a man who was killed recently, a member of our medical team here at TMH, and have had three friends injured severely because of them, and they are(or were) responsible riders. That example does not even scratch the surface.
That enough for you?
If ATV laws and ordinances were enforced NOW, I might have a different opinion, but they aren't, so I don't...death and disability are not the only reasons.
I make my opinion based on what I see and experience which is why I will never support an ordinance like this, sorry if that is not "credible' enough.
Last login: Thursday, February 26, 2015
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