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nimrod (Anonymous) says…

Brad and Lorrie, I doubt that you could sue the city for what a deer does, and your choice to have a 7-pound toy poodle in deer country means you pay your own vet bill.

onewhocares (Anonymous) says…

Then you need to move to the city, into an environment safe from the vicious deer. Remember you moved into their home.

Harlan (Anonymous) says…

The city of Craig has codes that limit what a home owner can do to protect their property and loved ones. The height of your fence is limited & you cannot put up a hotwire. What more could Brad & Lorrie have done? They state their pet was on their property, and I assume that the little dog was within a fenced area. I fail to see anything more they could have done to protect their loved ones.
If this had been a bear or mountain lion, would the deer defenders feel differently? The fact is that we have wild animals that have found protection within the city of Craig and are reproducing. I too appreciate the beauty of seeing the deer. However, I feel the City and the DOW have a responsibility to serve and protect the citizens within the city of Craig. This is not the first incident, simply the latest reported.
I agree that something must be done to reduce the deer population within city limits. I would hope that some consideration is given before a child or elderly person is harmed. I suspect that both authorities will point the finger at each other. The DOW will say it’s the City’s problem. The city will tell you it’s a DOW problem.
My sympathies to Brad & Lorrie. If their domesticated pet was unlicensed or running the streets, it would be picked up by animal control and they would pay the fine. I assume we have these laws on the books to protect the citizens. Just because this is a wild animal does not mean that we don’t deserve the same protection for our families.

onewhocares (Anonymous) says…

Here's the reality, nature DID provide a checks and balance to keep the deer populations in check—they're called mountain lions, wolves & beers, BUT we humans don't want to be inconvenienced of the possibility of being part of the food chain, so we wiped the majority out now causing too many deer. The deer aren't the problem - humans are !!!

And by the way, there's way too many people every where, so why don't we do something about that ????

T066J (Anonymous) says…

@onewhocares - - - - - beers???

GreyStone (Anonymous) says…

onewhocares,

My sentiments exactly. When I look at all the carnage to my trees and shrubs caused by the deers, all the crap on the walks and driveway…Beers are my only solitude.

oneopinion (Anonymous) says…

onewhocares….
Really? You have no problem whats so ever with the problems deer cause? Yes once upon a time long ago we moved to their home they still have plenty of places to roam and eat other then my garden. I have been charged by a buck while i was six months pregnant for walking into my backyard from the house. My child was chased down the sidewalk on his way home and thank goodness my dog ran in front of me to help scare the deer away. Maybe you should look at the whold picture no one said we must terminate all deer and yes there are alot of people out there maybe we should controll the population by getting rid of the ignorant ones first!!!!

kp81625 (Anonymous) says…

How many times have I seen my neighbor across the street feeding those poor animals during the winter. Now I pay the price. My roses are gone, I have to cover my garden. Before he starting feeding them, I had no problem. Once in a while they would eat my lillys.

On the other hand, deer are pretty docile animals. It is my understanding that they won't attack unless they feel threatened or are provoked. So what gives…did your dog run at this animal barking? Hate to say it but it probably learned it's lesson and will steer clear from the deer now. I'm just sayin…

als362 (Anonymous) says…

This is a rural Rocky Mountain area. When you live in an area such as this there are certain things that you must expect to see. The first is deer and elk in town. Many people moved here for that very reason, to be able to see deer and elk in town.
I am sorry that this dog was injured, but when you live here wild animals in town is one of the things you nust be able to abide.
I don't think that killing the deer is an option at all. Big fines for people that feed them I believe is a good place to start. If someone had to pay $500.00 if they fed the deer I bet they would stop doing that in the future.

bigrred1576 (Anonymous) says…

It is very likely that at this time of year a doe is protecting a fawn. Real threat or not, Any precieved threat to their baby is cause to do something for it;s protection. Yes Craig does have wildlife within its borders. We all know someone who feels sorry for them during the winter and “feeds”. I live outside of town and have deer eating my trees, flowers and garden also. Nature is what it is.

Harlan (Anonymous) says…

als362 makes a good point. Feeding the deer is one of the problems. I agree there should be a fine for doing so. bigred1576 also makes a good point. It seems that most of these problems are reported at this time of year & the mother/fawn relationship & protection issue surely relates.

I moved here 30 years ago. At that time there was not a deer issue in the city. I feel this has only become a problem within the last several years. Feeding and a lack of natural predators have most likely contributed to this problem. I disagree that I moved into “their home”. This was not a problem when I decided to make the city of Craig my home. They have moved into my home. Bambi is cute. No argument there. Bambi belongs in its natural habitat, not within the city.

The DOW takes action when bears or mountain lions threaten humans in populated areas. Where is the DOW's responsibility to manage? If the animals belong to the state, the state has a responsibility. The City of Craig also has a responsibility. They are tasked with keeping their taxpayers safe. I believe the city should be contacting the DOW and forcing the issue.
Relocation of the urban herd and a ban on feeding within city limits is a good place to start.

als362 (Anonymous) says…

I beg to differ with Harlan. Niether the DOW nor the City Of Craig have any responsiblity for these animals. If it were an animal that someone owned, then there are laws that confine where animals that people own can go, and what they are allowed to do.
The only laws I know of for wild animals are those that tell humans what they can and cannot do.
We cannot expect any agency to build a fence around the city to keep these animals out, nor can we allow people to hunt them within the city limits.
I have protected my trees by suspending fence wire from the lower branches. Since I put the fence on my trees not one deer has rubbed its antlers on them. There are chemicals and mechanical means available to scare the deer from your plants.
Thrying to catch and relocate deer from town to the county would be like trying to catch and relocate all the feral cats that are running wild within the city. As soon as they are released they will be back in the city very soon.
This is something that you must accept if you choose to live here.
I think slowing down the food supply by placing a hefty fine on those that feed the deer is the best place to start curbing them. I can think of no other means that will work or is affordable for the city/county/DOW.

Harlan (Anonymous) says…

The following paragraph was copied from the DOW website. Please note which sentance comes first.

The Colorado Division of Wildlife is charged by statute to protect, preserve, enhance, and manage wildlife for the use, benefit and enjoyment of the people of this state and its visitors. Wildlife management objectives such as determining the numbers and types of wildlife taken, and providing opportunities to hunt, fish, or engage in other wildlife-related recreation are realized through the creation of regulations by the Wildlife Commission and enforcement of season dates, bag limits, and license requirements. If everyone would follow the rules, enforcement efforts would be unnecessary, however laws for some people are only effective to the extent they are enforced. Without law enforcement effective wildlife management would not be possible. Without wildlife management Colorado’s abundant and diverse wildlife populations would not exist.

Did you note that one of their own words is “manage”, or that “benefit” is included? I disagree with als on this point. The DOW is indeed responsible, and failing to manage.

als362 (Anonymous) says…

Harlan, I can't believe that you or any can think that managing wildlife means keeping deer out of your yard. Managing wildlife means keeping track of populations, licenses issued, hunting grounds open, and number of animals taken. While the DOW does provide landowners with panels to help keep elk out of their hay suppies, I doubt you would want them surrounding your house to keep the deer out of your yard.
Take care of your situation yourself, and quit expecting the government to hold your hand for every possible consequence of living.
I know we have a worthless president that thinks that what government is for. But I can tell you now it is not. Stand up on your own two feet.

Harlan (Anonymous) says…

als362 - I can agree with your definition of the word “manage”. But I do not believe that is the complete meaning.

Please read my first post on this thread. City residents are limited by city code in their choice on how to legally protect their property and loved ones. I am not suggesting that the DOW's responsibility is to protect my property. I have already done everything I can to legally ensure this. My backyard is completely surrounded by a six foot privacy fence. I do not have the deer issues because I have taken steps to prevent them.

However, this does not mean that I do not have any sympathy for my neighbors, folks that cannot afford a massive fence, or disregard for the public safety. There needs to be a balance.

If a dog were to attack someone wouldn't the owner be held responsible? The only difference here is that one animal is domesticated and one is wild. The wild ones belong to the state. Therefore the state has a responsibility.

And yes, I do agree, when my neighbors “feed” the deer, they create a good part of the problem. Why would the deer leave with bountiful food, protection from hunting, and no predators? If I had wanted the close-up wildlife experience I would not have moved to the City of Craig, but rather outside the city limits where this is an expected occurance.

How about a city-wide education program? I don't see an easy way for both sides on this issue to agree but do feel that education would go a long way.

onewhocares (Anonymous) says…

This is truly hilarious !!!! Here's another thought about the deer: have you ever considered the possibility that if all hek breaks loose in our “safe” society, those deer may be the only meat we have? In my opinion, we need to protect all our wildlife, because there may come a day we need them for our survival. Scary thought, but very possible.

als362 (Anonymous) says…

Harlan: before you go blaming the state for a wild animal attacking a person, you should read and find out who owns the wild animals in Colorado. If you read the hunting regulations for this state you will find out that the animals here are the property of the PEOPLE of the state of Colorado. So that makes it YOUR responsibility when a deer attacks a person.
What the city codes might read, really makes no difference to me. The city nor the county nor the state is responsible for taking care of your property.
The balance is, you live in a place where wild animals live. You can either deal with or go somewhere the animals don't live. I have learned to deal with the animals that come in my yard, I see no reason why others can't do the same.

Harlan (Anonymous) says…

Once again you have missed my point als362. We seen to be on different paths here. We will just have to agree to disagree.

als362 (Anonymous) says…

No I haven't missed your point. You think the government is here to take care of your every want and need. That is not what government is for, nor do I care to pay for that sort of hand holding with my tax dollars.

AltitudeAdjustment (Anonymous) says…

I think Brad and Laurie have a good point. I know first hand that if you dog chases the deer off your property you can get a ticket from DOW and/or city for harassing wild life. I know a guy who uses a paintball gun to keep them off his property and that I hear can land you in jail. I for one feel sorry for their dog as I know that the deer are no longer afraid of dogs in town and many aren't afraid of humans, adults or kids. It's only a mattr of time when a kid is going to get ruffed up pretty bad.

If it were a mountain lion or a bear in town I am sure the DOW would come do something about it because they are consider “dangerous”. Will it take a child gettig gored before some of these large bucks are considerred dangerous? Heck the city thinks a dog wandering the streets is dangerous and expend thousands of dollars a year to make sure they aren't a nusense. I personally have about seven or eight bucks that live in my side yard and I am sure its only a matter of time before my snoopy dog is roughed up too.

jmemcse (Anonymous) says…

Last time this issue came up on this forum and I complained about the deer, someone said if I didn't like it I should move. Excellent advice. Sold my house in Craig and moved to Hayden. We don't have a deer problem here.

native_craig_guy (Anonymous) says…

Reason #912 to not own a poodle “lack of deer hardiness”. Maybe you can sign a petition with Culverwell about how the DOW is not managing the deer population in town. I am very sorry but I have spent a lot of time around both deer and dogs and when a wild animal attacks a dog it was probably because the dog came up and upset the deer. Deer are rather docile creatures and tend to spook rather than attack. We live in a rural community where we often see wildlife and often have them frequent our yards. This is simply part of living in northwest Colorado. If you do not like the deer in your yard there are 8' game fences that can be placed around your property, or you can always relocate to downtown Los Angeles.

native_craig_guy (Anonymous) says…

Reason #912 to not own a poodle “lack of deer hardiness”. Maybe you can sign a petition with Culverwell about how the DOW is not managing the deer population in town. I am very sorry but I have spent a lot of time around both deer and dogs and when a wild animal attacks a dog it was probably because the dog came up and upset the deer. Deer are rather docile creatures and tend to spook rather than attack. We live in a rural community where we often see wildlife and often have them frequent our yards. This is simply part of living in northwest Colorado. If you do not like the deer in your yard there are 8' game fences that can be placed around your property, or you can always relocate to downtown Los Angeles.

kerrya (Anonymous) says…

Oh my God. Are you people serious? We are going to sit here and blame Lorrie for what type of dog she owns? tell her to move because she wants to own a poodle? Is she the only one in this town that owns a small dog? And for that matter I know of large dogs that have been attacked and killed by a deer. Everyone seems to be missing a big point here - what if that had been a CHILD?????? No, the deer don't typically attack unprovoked but these deer are not typical. And to tell her to put up an 8foot fence??? I am not sure, but I think there are City Ordinances against fences that high in town? Unfortunately there is no one that we can turn to when something like this happens…the DOW won't help….the City doesn't help….who is going to be there when a child gets in the way and is mauled and/or killed by a deer.

als362 (Anonymous) says…

YOU are going to take care of yourself, and not expect the government to take care of you. That is what is mainly wrong with this country now. Everyone expects the government to do everything for them so they can live in this little antiseptic world.

slipknot (Anonymous) says…

If I had read nothing but the initial letter regarding the attack on the poodle by the enraged doe, and I didn't know Brad and Lorrie, I would have thought I'd stumbled into the shallow end of the gene pool.
Where you gonna move the deer to? or maybe the question should be how you gonna move them? Maybe get all those kids on ATV's to 'cowboy up' and herd them out of town? Of course you'd have to allow access to your backyards and such and perhaps those of us who allow grazing on our lawns might even be fined while waiting for the deer rustlers to hustle on by

als362 (Anonymous) says…

It sort of looks to me like slipknot's knot has really slipped.