Francisco Reina: Disappointed with Integrated Community

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— To the editor:

I feel sad and disappointed about how Integrated Community presents their English-speaking programs. I live in the United States of America, and I am from Spain.

The first language in Spain is Spanish and the second is Sicilian. My question is, if a foreigner is coming to the United States, shouldn’t the English language be first, not second?

I am disappointed about how Integrated Community is treating the English language as a second language for foreigners now.

Francisco Reina

Comments

native_craig_guy 4 years, 9 months ago

I could not agree more. I spent sometime as a child in a Latin American country and I was forced to learn Spanish to survive. I expect that those to our country also learn our language because English is the predominant language in the US and learning English should be important to all who immigrate to our country. Thank you Mr. Reina for expressing your views regarding this hotly contested topic.

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GreyStone 4 years, 9 months ago

Mr. Reina,

I agree with you also.

Second languages are an asset . Learning English in America is essential.

By not insisting that new immigrants learn English as their first language, they are perpetuating a position of second class citizenship, lower wages and numerous other hardships in this English dominated American society.

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MsJudi 4 years, 9 months ago

Integrated Community is doing just what it is supposed to be doing...teaching English to adults whose 1st language is not English. Using the term, "English as a Second Language" (ESL) is not their terminology; it is a phrase used my many. It means a person who speaks a language other than English, is attending a class who's purpose is to teach them English. Integrated Community offers a wonderful opportunity for Moffat & Routt County residents to learn English in an environment that supports their needs and allows a relatively relaxed format that makes an adult learner more comfortable & ready to learn. As a volunteer for this program, I assist the teacher in helping with English pronounciation. The emphasis is speaking English. The teacher starts each class with a reminder to not only "speak" in English but to "think" in English. The students final project before break was to do a presentation about themselves in English. I am perplexed that someone would write a negative comment on a program that they have never visited first hand. I welcome that person to attend a class, perhaps even volunteer some time and help their fellow community members, who are willing to make the effort, to learn the language of the place where they live. On a personal note...I have been taking spanish classes for over 1 year now & I know first hand how hard it is to learn a new language as an adult. I applaud those students attempts to learn English and I recognize the challenges they face when they choose to live in an English speaking community.

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lostyermarbles 4 years, 9 months ago

Mr. Reina, Thanks you so much for this letter! I have been mad about this for sometime and there is some very rude people around town acting like this is not the U.S. Our soldiers are over seas fighting for the U.S and there are people that are being rude and disrespectful to the people that are this country. Years ago when our ancestors came to Ellis Island from other country's, they learned English. This is not Mexico or whatever. It is the U.S. If you like it so much , ADAPT.!! Once again, Thanks!

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westslopeguy 4 years, 9 months ago

Based on grammar and spelling that I've seen in the previous posts, it seems many of us, (mostly the American born), could use a brush up on English as a PRIMARY language. And you have the gall to disrespect those trying to get the grasp after emigrating?

My 2cents, Paul

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swingpoet 4 years, 9 months ago

It is categorically impossible for a person whose first language is not English to subsequently learn English as a first language. Hence, the term, "English as a Second Language."

Let me ask you, Mr. Reina, what is your first language?

As a volunteer for Integrated Community, I can say with confidence and authority that the program, its directors and its committed participants are deserving of praise and nothing less. If modern American immigration poses some problems, Integrated Community offers kind and effective solutions.

And to the editor of the Daily Press: perhaps it's time for a brush-up on your own reading skills. To let a misinformed letter such as this find a home in your pages is foolish and irresponsible.

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GreyStone 4 years, 9 months ago

swingpoet

It is categorically impossible for a person whose first language is not English to subsequently learn English as a first language. Hence, the term, “English as a Second Language.”<

Just wondering, does this imply a lack of mental capacity to learn English proficiently or simply lack of desire.

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swingpoet 4 years, 9 months ago

It is categorically impossible for a person whose first language is not English to subsequently learn English as a first language. Hence, the term, “English as a Second Language.”<

Just wondering, does this imply a lack of mental capacity to learn English proficiently or simply lack of desire.<<

Please, someone tell me: Am I missing something here?

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westslopeguy 4 years, 9 months ago

Yes Swingpoet, you are missing something here. I read what you said, I read what GreyStone said. You are missing the fact that the average poster here, (That's a noun defining one who posts, not a big picher of Shania on the wall), hasn't accomplished basic skills of ordinal math taught in 2nd grade.

First comes BEFORE second.

Before we criticize others for trying to better themselves, perhaps we ought to try to better ourselves.

You know I got it... My 2cents, Paul

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Anitadunnce 4 years, 9 months ago

Mr. Reina, you are amazing! I am grateful to you, because the bleeding hearts who whine about how hard life is in Mexico, and how hard it is for illegals to learn English after they break into the United States, need to read your letter and learn from you. Welcome to the United States.

I tire of the liberal spew about how we "need" illegal aliens, and that our economy would collapse if they were all deported. There is no need to be understanding of the plight of Mexicans who break in and help themselves to all that our country has to offer, with no intention of giving back. Illegal aliens do not want to assimilate. They do not want to learn English. Illegals do not want to improve our country. In fact, they do not even spend their earnings here. They could enter legally, but they have chosen not to. They have no respect for us or for our laws.

Our current immigration law also does not need to be expanded or reformed ..... it just needs to be enforced. When there are "jobs that Americans won't do", current federal law dictates that employers must first advertise and then In Steamboat and other resorts, foreign workers are lawfully brought in to work in the fast food restaurants. When illegals are in our country doing any work that was not first advertised to Americans and legal immigrants, they are stealing employment to which they have no right. They need to be deported, they need to remove their kids from our country if they choose to take them home, and employers must be fined and jailed.

It is ignorant for defenders of illegal aliens, and defenders of those who refuse to learn English, to assume that illegals have the right to break into the United States. It is clear to me that these libs are unaware of the fact that many professionals, including teachers and engineers, are now taking jobs that liberals deem to be fit only for illegals. American citizens are suffering, and the few available jobs are being stolen by people who do not belong in our country.

It is never acceptable for illegals to steal American jobs; for illegals to educate their children at our expense; for illegals to sneak into the U.S in order to drop babies on U.S. soil; for illegals to feed their children in the "free" school breakfast and lunch programs; for illegals to treat our faltering emergency rooms and bankrupt hospitals as their own "free" healthcare system. Our government is out of money and cannot support its own citizens or foreigners who are lawfully here, let alone 40-million illegals who have snuck in from Mexico and Guatemala.

It is outrageous for former District Attorney Bill Ritter to have circumvented criminal law in order to assist violent illegal aliens to remain in our country.

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PJ Howe 4 years, 9 months ago

This thread cracks me up. You have people lambasting immigrants to this country for not speaking english then attacking the private non-profit group trying to teach them English. And people wonder what's wrong with this country? You get what you ask for - immigrants learning the predominatly spoken language of English - and STILL complain. And where did "Anitadunce" come from. How do you get to a rant on illigal immigration from a discussion on what English classes should be called. I bet she's a lot of fun at a party.

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daybyday 4 years, 9 months ago

The difference between legal and illegal immigrants is simple - one is legal according to U.S. law and one is not. If Integrated Communities is offering ESL to illegal immigrants that should stop, and I don't know that this is the case, but checking paperwork is not difficult.

Anitadunnce blames illegal immigrants for crossing borders and taking what is freely offered and handed to them, but it's the U.S. who are responsible for upholding our own laws. Blame the one who's dangling the carrot. Whoever said that it is rude when people speak another language in his presence make me think of my brother who, after being frustrated with his increasing loss of hearing, finally got hearing aides, and quickly learned he prefers his quieter life to the noise he thought he was missing.

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cag81625 4 years, 9 months ago

My grandfather was the son of a German immigrant in the Texas hill country. He was raised speaking German and never learned English until his teenage years. His father went to the grave never speaking English. There are pockets of the hill country where you will still hear German spoken in public. Where is the outrage over that? Could it be that it has nothing to do with the language and everything to do with the cultural connotations?

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Anitadunnce 4 years, 9 months ago

Response to "however": If you do not understand my screen name, then do a search of White House personnel. Clearly, the screen name reference is lost on you, so please make some effort to become informed. If you failed to understand my post, then re-read it..... more S-L-O-W-L-Y this time. The connection between illegal aliens and the refusal to learn English is clear. Legal immigrants like the relatives of many of us, were proud to move legally into their adopted country and to embrace its language, English. The ones who sneak across the border are here to take, take, take .... money, services, identities and Social Security numbers, "free" breakfast and lunch programs, "free" education, "free" medical care, and all the loot they can grab as a result of crimes..... not even bothering to carry minimal automobile insurance, and they cannot be bothered to learn anything, including our language. You made a quantum leap with the claim that I am not "fun at a party"...... This is a serious political issue, a legal matter, an issue of grave economic importance to all of us. If it is only good times and parties and fun on your mind, you are in the wrong discussion.

Response to "daybyday": Your post is just plain goofy. If you leave your car unlocked, is its theft any less a crime? If bank security takes a 10-minute bathroom break, does the armed robber get a pass on the violent crime? How about the murder of the teller with the firearm that the robber brought into the bank? Is the murder excused, because the security guard "allowed" the crime to occur? Get a firm grip on the reality of these matters, huh? Read these posts more C-A-R-E-F-U-L-L-Y so that you can understand the nuances of our discussion.

I have a better idea: ask Mr. Reina whether he excuses illegal immigration and the rampant crime that comes with it? This is his letter to which we respond, so ask him whether he finds any excuse for the lawlessness?

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GreyStone 4 years, 9 months ago

This is just great. The whole point seems to be lost… perhaps because we were all educated in the Moffat county school system and learned our English as a Second Language.

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Anitadunnce 4 years, 9 months ago

Okay, "swing", I'll bite: What happened to it? ..... or was that intended to be a rhetorical question, because you love having illegals take advantage of Americans and the legal immigrants who actually follow the law to come into the country? By the way, these yay-hoos know they are breaking the law: that is why they sneak in under cover of darkness and run through the desert.

GreyStone, I think I have a hunch who you are, but I'm not 100% sure. I do want to tell you, however, that I love your sense of humor (especially the understated "[t]his is just great" part). I needed a wonderful laugh today, and your excellent posts have brightened my day. I will look forward to reading more of your comments.

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daybyday 4 years, 9 months ago

Anitadunnce, in my final response to you, I will say this - they're not breaking in, they're strolling in (like a cake walk) or the numbers wouldn't be in the millions. Illegal immigrants are not breaking into hospitals and demanding healthcare, they're not busting into our schools and demanding education, they're not putting a gun to employer's heads to get a job, and they're not stealing millions from our pockets while our backs are turned...we're handing to them and then letting them know when and where to come back for more. Leave your car unlocked with a sign on it that says, "free car," and then get mad when someone takes it. Have your bank security announce there will be free cash daily on breaks, and then get mad when people line up for cash.

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GreyStone 4 years, 9 months ago

People,

I think we all like the spirited debate over Math , First or Second English lessons, and our superior intellect, however one thing we do need to work on in this community is Assimilation and we might all be better off.

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Abominable 4 years, 9 months ago

Mr. Francisco Reina, your FIRST language is Spanish, your SECOND language is English. You learned English as a second language. Please don't be sad and disappointed at yourself. Shall we all shave our heads and burn crosses?

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Anitadunnce 4 years, 9 months ago

"daybyday": OMG, now that I can see how your mind works on this issue, you're really starting to scare me. Here's a whacky thought. I'll bet you voted for Obama.

Given your bent, this thought of mine is going to scare you. The U.S. is under attack from terrorists and others who enter illegally through Mexico. I propose that we bring our troops home from Afghanistan and Iraq, put them to work on building a big wall along our southern border, assign them to walk the wall in shifts and to shoot to kill anyone who attempts to breach our security. That would have the added benefit of keeping out the Mexican meth, marijuana, and other drugs. A military kill would only have to happen once or twice, and Mexicans and Guatemalans would all get the point that NO one is welcome to enter our country without permission, whether they are on a "cakewalk" through the desert in the middle of the night or not.

Remember, "daybyday", good fences make good neighbors. It is no accident that Canadians and Americans get along so well and have great mutual respect. Try, just try, to sneak one of your illegal Mexican pals from Craig across the border into Canada!

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daybyday 4 years, 9 months ago

I wouldn't consider your thoughts either wacky or scary, as they are not exactly orginal. President Bush already spent millions making our borders more secure in response to national security threats, and how's that working. But, go ahead if you enjoy imagining in your mind, actually building a giant wall across the border (it's bigger than where you drove your car through with the kids), staffing it 24/7 with soldiers lined up for miles, shooting illegals and drug smugglers and whoever else you feel like shooting. What do you do after you shoot a couple and they "get the point?"...send the troops home and plant flowers on the walls? Of course I'm sure you believe there would be no corruption along your wall and guards wouldn't be tempted to take bribes , or maybe we could shoot them also.

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Anitadunnce 4 years, 9 months ago

Yep, "daybyday", that is a very bright, very thoughtul solution that you have presented. Because the criminals from Mexico and Guatemala just keep pouring in, our response should be to just open the borders and let them take over our country. You do understand, don't you, that Mexico has beautiful beaches, thousands of acres of once-productive agricultural land, and a formerly thriving tourist trade (until the drug dealers began to murder American tourists on vacation). If you hand over our country to them, and you will find in short order that they will destroy our own country the same way that they ruined their own. THEN who will take care of them, huh? Without a welfare system to turn to, WHO will feed these people if they actually have to support themselves as we support ourselves. Do you hate the United States? It sounds as though you do if it is your desire to allow illegal Mexicans to turn Colorado and other states into the same mess that California faces. You will understand, won't you, if I refuse to elect you to any office from which you will be making important, intelligent, reasonable, informed decisions about my life and the lives of my children and husband?

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daybyday 4 years, 9 months ago

I never said open borders or provide anything to illegals, when I believe the opposite. Did you not read that I stated that illegal immigrants should not even receive free English lessons that are free to the general public? I do not consider illegal immigrants eligible for anything in the U.S. They have no problem getting over our borders, they have no problem finding work (including Craig), places to live, free healthcare, food and clothing for themselves and their families...something that many hard-working, taxpaying, loyal U.S. loving Americans can't obtain. It's heartwrenching, it's disgusting, and it's a travesty. Yet Americans enable it in many ways including by hiring to line their individual pocketbooks at the ultimate expense of our country, and giving handouts due to a false sense of compassion that "all" people are to be treated equally. I believe in the constitution of the U.S. which was intended for its citizens and believe in upholding our laws and protecting our rights and our soil, and will do my best to vote accordingly.

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Anitadunnce 4 years, 9 months ago

"daybyday": Thank you for taking the time to post your most recent comment. I am glad that you did that, and I am glad that I decided to open this discussion this morning to read your post before going out to run errands. This is what communication is all about. If I misunderstood your earlier posts, I am sorry for that. If you did not state your position in earlier posts as clearly as you did in your recent post, then again I thank you for taking this additional time.

I also feel frustration with our government. I do not understand a government that is unwilling to enforce its own laws. I also do not understand a government that is unwilling to repeal our 14th Amendment when, in my view, it has been applied for decades in a manner never intended by the drafters in the mid-19th Century.

Americans are a generous, open, warm, accepting people in most cases, and I think that our generosity is taken advantage of by many. A couple of examples of that are all the freebies that illegal aliens receive (not just Mexicans and Guatemalans, either... also Russians, Ukrainians, and others who come here on "vacation" with the intent to get lost in the crowd and to overstay their travel visas) in terms of education, medical care, and meals. Another example is our ongoing acceptance of terrorists into our country (and some of them are entering through our unprotected southern border, as evidenced by the Muslim prayer rugs found in the desert). In this computer age, it is not so difficult to refuse entry to those who are on the terrorist-watch list, and to refuse entry to anyone who has spent time in an Al-Quaida bomb-making camp, and to refuse to allow Americans travel visas to visit those countries with terrorist training camps. Instead, we take none of it seriously, and the next Christmas airplane bombing attempt likely will succeed. Obama just does not seem to get it.

It is a privilege to be an American, and a privilege to be a lawful immigrant who is allowed into the United States under federal immigration policies. It just hurts when people who do not love and value our country and our people walk in for the purpose of taking from us, with no intention to assimilate or ever to give back. Just ask Lance Scranton over at the high school. He is the finest and most patriotic person I have ever met in Craig. He loves and defends and supports his adopted country, and he will proudly tell you about it if you ask. All the students know that Lance recites the American Pledge of Allegiance with passion and understanding. I wish that most other American-born teachers shared his love for the United States, because they would be much better role models if they did.

Have a good weekend, "daybyday", and thank you again for posting your recent comment that clarifies so much. You and I probably are not so far apart in our philosophy and love/defense of our country as one initially might have thought.

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daybyday 4 years, 9 months ago

Anitadunnce, I was originally trying to stay on the topic of ESL classes, but clearly it's difficult to do when topics are so interrelated and open up several cans of worms. Americans are tired of "pressing 2 for English" in America and we're tired of being drained of our trust in our judicial, financial and political systems. I'm very glad we communicated and thank you also.

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als362 4 years, 9 months ago

To cag81625: There is no problem with someone in a remote area not learning English, or using another language as thier main means of communication.
Where I have a problem with this bi-lingual crap is when they want me to press 1 for English! This is crazy and a slap in the face to native Americans.
If people want to live in an isolated area and speak a language other than English, I believe no problem. But don't force me to deal with someones lack of speaking English in America, I think that is wrong.

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native_craig_guy 4 years, 9 months ago

This issue is larger to me than just immigration. It is an issue of respect. As a bi-lingual person I dont think that most of you know what I hear around town when people think that I cannot speak spanish. On numerous occasions I have been insulted to my face or heard brazen remarks (that would not have been said in english) insulting members of our community. I also do not understand why I get looks of disgust because the person behind the counter does not speak english. Rarely do I speak spanish to an individual who does not speak english, they need the practice. The only times i speak spanish is if the person is obviously trying but struggling to communicate, or if I want my order right the first time. Furthermore do not misconstrue my frustrations to believe that I am predjudiced in any way against Mexicans. I am also not totally against integrated community, but I do think that there is a lack of respect for the english language in this country. Years ago when our families immigrated here it was expected for everyone to learn english to assimilate. In today's modern times that expectation no longer exists. To me it is an issue regarding respecting the culture of the country that you are moving into and creating a life in. It is the unwillingness to learn that bothers me.

Swingpoet and GreyStone: Do not make the mistake of thinking that you are the only educated and intellegent people in this community. We have a number of highly educated and intellegent persons who contribute to improve this community. I guess that some people are embrazened by the cloak of anonymity that an anonymous blog posting can offer. Do not belittle and insult others who are willing to share their views. Spelling and Grammar are only two criteria by which to judge someone's intellect, dont be presumptuous. Contrary to what your mother may have told you, you are no more special than anyone else.

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als362 4 years, 9 months ago

I never speak any other language than English. If a business owner does not put a person in charge of that business that cannot speak English, then that owner does not need or want my money. Nor will they get it. If I cannot communicate with the person behind the counter I will leave the goods on the counter and walk out.

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GreyStone 4 years, 9 months ago

Native_craig_guy,

Thank you so much.

After CindyLou told me I am an IDIOT, I sank into a deep depression, but now after your compliment, I am almost my old self.

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GreyStone 4 years, 9 months ago

native_craig_guy says, “I guess that some people are embrazened by the cloak of anonymity that an anonymous blog posting can offer. Do not belittle and insult others who are willing to share their views. “

Native_craig_guy,

If you post on this board, (blog), under the mistaken assumption that you will remain anonymous, you are delusional. Everything that we post on the internet is accessible to anyone with the knowledge to hack it.

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