Allen Hischke: Do it yourself

To the editor:

I have been reading the comments by Tony St. John concerning a recreation center.

This is the same rec center that has been voted down by the people of Craig numerous times. The same rec center that has been ridiculed in these pages so many times, it is hard to count them. And that the supporters have been told many times that no monies should be allotted for it.

Now, Tony St. John tells us that this facility is going to have thousands of customers.

To this, I have the following to say to Tony St. John:

If you truly believe that, then you should go to one of the local banks and borrow the money to build this thing yourself. Then, all the profits will go directly into your pocket, and, according to the thousands of customers that you predict, you soon will be a rich man.

Unless you are willing to do that, please be quiet, sit down, and let this rec center stupidity go into oblivion. Because unless you are willing to invest your own money, I will not believe anything you say concerning this waste of time and money that you call a rec center.

But we all know that this is not true. There are two rec/fitness centers in Craig now, and never have I seen the thousands of customers that Tony St. John predicts for the one he thinks tax dollars should build.

We all know that a facility of this nature will not be an asset to the city/county, but a liability costing more in maintenance, upkeep and repair than it will ever generate.

Just let it go. You have been told this before, so please listen. People are growing tired of telling you no.

You act like a child who just can't keep his hand out of the cookie jar.

Allen Hischke

Comments

Patrick Germond 5 years, 2 months ago

Hay Allen, how's it goin? I liked your artical, alot. I am beside myself with governments spending our money. I did want to explain one thing about Tony that many people may not know. He is one of the most kindest and giving person I have ever met. He and his wife have done so much for others that I doupt they can even remember it all. Please, just give him a little room. I don't believe the center will happen anyway. I'm sure he is doing it because he thinks it will make everyones life better, He's a big optimist and full of hope. There is no evil motive behind it. If that is all Tony ever does wrong in our community in our opinun, we will be big winners for just having him with us.

Anyway, thanks Allen, good artical.

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als362 5 years, 2 months ago

Hello Patrick; When people continue to do things that the rest of the public has told them many times to not do, no matter what their intent is or was. They are not to be appauded for their efforts. When someone has been told not to do something as many times as these rec center idiots have been told not to do, and they still keep shoving this junk down our throats. Then I must believe that they have some sort of monetary interest in the tact they propose. Sorry Patrick he will get no "room" from me. If he is truly so "kind" then he should start to listen to what he has been told many times and give this thing up.

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grannyrett 5 years, 2 months ago

Tony is a great friend, and I agree with everything Patrick has said. However, in this case, I think he is wrong. Sorry Tony. The people have spoken, and spoken, and spoken. Sometimes, we just have to listen to what they are telling us.

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Patrick Germond 5 years, 2 months ago

I know Allen. That is why I didn't say anything in the paper. I wanted to leave the impression you gave, stand. That way maybe it would work at least, and the rec center would go away for good. I.E. maybe your artical would do some good.

I'm going to tell Toni on Sunday he needs to let it go, or start watching for angry mobs. Ha Ha.

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als362 5 years, 2 months ago

Thanks for your support Patrick and grannyrett, I do appreciate it. I wonder if any of these rec center folks have ever thought of using the old hospital for this? No deal has been made for this building yet, and the many rooms there could, I believe easily be used for exercise rooms. Then if the thousands of customers actually show up, the monies from them could be saved up until enough is raised to build what these people want, without using any tax of any kind.

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native_craig_guy 5 years, 2 months ago

I am not going to criticize a man for sticking to what he believes is a good idea and a beneficial program for the youth in our community. A rec center is a good idea and could be a great benefit to our community. We need to take steps to have positive activities for the kids in the community. I do agree with everyone else that this is not the right time for this program to be placed into any county budget. Our nation is in a recession and we need to look at perserving funds and being financially responsible. In the future I hope that the conditions are right for a rec center but now is simply not the time. I do not think that we should lambaste Mr. St. John with criticism for his strong commitment to the community. Do not confuse my opinions with any form of support or firendship that I have with Mr. St. John, I can whole heartedly ensure that is not the case. I am not defeding Mr. St. John nor am I a fan of his in any manner. I can just appreciate anyone who wants to better our community.

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lostyermarbles 5 years, 2 months ago

I don't think now is the time for this rec center. Our pockets are already turned inside out and with the economy like it is and more raises in the works form the state to pay for stuff we already have paid for, taxes went up AGAIN this year, thank you county.... I think this should be put to bed for a few years and wait to see how the money pit hospital goes. We have a new school, can't some activities be arranged in there to keep the ignored kids off the street?? They need to be outdoors anyway, not in a multi $$$ building we can't afford. Since when are we all cultivating money tree's around here?? I didn't get one..

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oldsage 5 years, 2 months ago

Why should the out of town county residents pay for this? If I suggested it should be in Great Divide so it would be a little closer to my home would all you people in favor of this thing still want to pay for it. How about puting it in Dinosaur, Maybell, Hamilton, or Slater for those folks to use while you in Craig pay for it. No, they would object to that. The people who want this want money from those who will never use it, to pay for it so they can have it all to themselves.

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als362 5 years, 2 months ago

To native_craig_guy: If you thinks this rec center crap is such a good idea, then you and Tony St. John should pool your money together and build it. But don't ask me to pay for something that only will benefit a few.

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Patrick Germond 5 years, 1 month ago

Hay Guys, I talked to Tony today. I know, about two weeks late. I have to admit, Tony has some great points. I am not for spending any of our local taxes on it, but I am enough for it to try and find a way to still get it. I know, I know, I'm working on it. I wrote John Salazar tonight and asked him. I figured if Vegus gets a $9 billion train. Maybe we can get a pool. Anyway, like I said, Tony is a great guy. The story he told me about the things they have done for our community in the past 20 yaers that we take for granted, was quite impressive. I think he's got some great vision that can help us all. Anyway, just sit back a while and let's see if we can get some of our federal taxes back here to do some good. And please give Tony more of a chance to explain himself. After all he's done for us here, we all owe him that much. Even if we don't agree with him.

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als362 5 years, 1 month ago

I hate to break it to you Patrick, but taxes are taxes, no matter where they are paid to. It seems that you think federal money just floats from the sky. It doesn't! It floats from our wallets! I am opposed to tax money from any source being used to build a waste of money called a rec center. And as I stated before Tony St. John and his cronies will get no chance, relief, room or any rest from me as long as he/they are proposing stupidity like this rec center crap!

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Ray Cartwright 5 years, 1 month ago

AMEN als. This community is famous for "let's put it on the ballot" and when it is voted down "let's build it anyway as the public doesn't know what they really want. NO REC CENTER

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Patrick Germond 5 years, 1 month ago

Dentnted fender, Your point is very valid.

Allen, yours I do not get. I guess you would rather your Federal tax money went to build midnight basketball courts in Denver. I would like to find a way to get it back here. A road project would be best. However, anything that I can do to make your property value go up I will. (Like a nice big rec center.) They are giving out everyboby's tax dollars from Moffat county anyway . Moffat county's children will have to pay this pig of a bill off for 15 years. That Allen, is where these tax dollars are coming from. Our kids. I hate it. And I would at least think you would want moffat county to get some of ours back though. We have no choice on paying for it anyway. Would you like Denver to get a new rec center but not us?

I am against new building because of it costing us money in higher property taxes. Where the heck are you coming from Allen? This is totaly different. We have no choice, we are still getting stuck with the bill.
Dentented Fender, you have a good point. I wonder what the vote would be on a free one? I don't know, this isn't my deal. i'm not going to get to involed in this. You'll have to take up the finer points with Tony.

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Patrick Germond 5 years, 1 month ago

P.S. The reason I would give Tony a chance is because I've seen all the good thing he's done for our community. He's on the school board right now, and I know he's done a lot for our parks, almost all for free (I think the school board is unpaid). I find I don't look nearly as dumb if I give true community servents a chance to at least speak before I start trying to lynch them. I don't know that's just me though.

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als362 5 years, 1 month ago

Patrick; I don't think you get it. The thing that will make your property value go up the most is when the economy turns around. It is obvious to me that your "wonderful" Tony has been filling your head full of more trash than can be shoveled off. Quit listening to him, and listen to what the majority of the people here have to say. Listen to the voters that have voted this idiocy down several times. I don't care how many boards and committees he is on, if he is too stupid to listen to the voters then he has no business being on any board or committee. Wake up and smell the garbage that you are being fed.

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grannyrett 5 years, 1 month ago

Sorry Patrick, I have to agree with als. Tony can be very passionate about things like this, and can probably give you a million reasons why we should have it. FACT is, the people in this community have voted against it several times--and that was when the economy was doing well. The hospital and school financing passed, and taxes went way up. The economy is in the toilet and now is not the time to even be thinking about this. People are losing jobs--even in our area, and it isn't right to ask them for more.

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Patrick Germond 5 years, 1 month ago

I totaly agree with the argument about voting. I'm not even going to justify going against that. Plus, I do not plan on ever going to the rec center. I don't really care one way or the other.

The argument about the money is really way off. I don't want to talk down to anyone. So, please don't get angry with me if I disagree on that point. We, will, all, pay ,the same, in taxes, no mater what. I would like to see something, semi-usefull done here in Craig with the Federal Bailout money. I have alot of people tell me, yeah, why not as long as we have to pay for it anyway. I have had kids tell me they want to go to it. I'm not excited about it, but others are.

Here is my srongest argument for it. If we wait long enough. Enough people will want it anyway, someday. By that time we may have to pay for it locally. So just do it now.

Finally, I also talked to some people at the gun store today. We laughed about it alot. One guy hates the words rec center so bad that he would die of thirst before going into it to get a drink. I respect that alot. Like Al's position, hay I'm good with that. Other people, who where way against it before, changed their minds if it could be done with B-out money. Those people are just being practical, with a new set of oppitions. They, like me hate the B-out. But, they want to make the best of it for our community. I do like this better then a bike path to Steamboat. We can at least use the rec center year round. Please don't be so hateful you'd cut your nose off to spite your face. You guy's are better than that.

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lostyermarbles 5 years, 1 month ago

Patrick, hit the spell check!! And why would Tony listen to you????? NOW is not the time, we are in a rock bottom economy. Can you afford more taxe's right off the bat after the school and hospital?? Alot of us can't but will have it forced down our throat too like everything all the chair holding people want.. We are just the mules for them. I would like to do more at MY HOUSE but my taxe's are up. If our taxe's go up it's not for Denver, it's for City or County for something else the big spender's want.

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Patrick Germond 5 years, 1 month ago

Sorry, it was late when I wrote that. I do not want to spend more money. I do not want to raise taxes. I'm not going to explain this anymore. People are just not getting it. I also don't care about the rec center. The subject is closed as far as I'm concerned. Have a good weekend everybody, I'll talk to you later.

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als362 5 years, 1 month ago

Hello Patrick and everyone that thinks government aid is something useful. This is the true definition of government aid. Take blood from your left arm, dribble 2/3 of it on the floor, and put it in your right arm.
In case you don't quite understand that one, try this. Fill your bath tub with water. Using a glass, dip some water from the deepest end. Then pour it into the shallowest end, and note the difference in overall depth.

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Patrick Germond 5 years, 1 month ago

Allen, your arms already been cut. It happend in Denver last week. Do you want the one third put back in your arm or not? That was my point.. Maybe this will help explain your point better and redefine where I now stand. I'm so over this B-out crud. I'm way beyond spliting hairs anymore.

For everyone else, I think a bigger point here to make is maybe we should all just draw a line and say we're done with all this redistribution. On principle, not on practicality. We all just say no to any B-out money of any kind no matter what the cause is. That's where I am now. Here's a story.

I am beside myself with anger after talking to a so called friend. He has used his house like an ATM. He owes $200,000 on a house worth $200,000. He's mad because he's been spending like a fiend for years and it is all coming to an end. No more big equity gains. He has his house financed at 6%. His plan is he gets to keep his two houses and all the crap for his home business ($30,000 worth) that he never started, and get a re-fi at 5% from Obama. You know the 275 billion dollars of our money in the shape of a housing B-out.

I never got that Harley because I didn't want to keep getting in debt without paying off things as I go. I didn't run up my credit cards, he did. He calls himself a victim that played by the rules. He say's if the housing market had stayed up he could have sold it and been ok. I lived with in my means. How come I feel like the victim?

I've got several of these first hand "what in the h@!!" examples. I'm so upset I can't watch T.V..

Today I watched as the new bill to alow D.C. to have 2 senators was getting off the ground. That is like giving San Fransico two senators. They will never be Republicans. And D.C. isn't a state.

I would urge everyone to just say no to Washinghton, and their change. Maybe this will be a clearer direction, and one that will gain ground?

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