James R. Reiman: The Tea Party point

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— To the editor:

I read in your paper April 16 that Ms. Villard said she did not understand what the Tea Parties were all about. As a member of the voting public and a participant at the Craig Tea Party, I will try to sum up what these Tea Parties stand for or what they are all about. I shall have to condense millions of ideas, into one short letter, so forgive me as I must omit some ideas to save room.

• Tea Parties are a protest against the large amounts of government spending during the past decade under Democrats and Republicans. This spending has had many critics throughout the years and has been objected to by much of the silent majority. As the name implies, they were silent. The silence was broken last fall, when against the wishes of the people, the men and women in Congress passed a $700 billion bailout. Then President Bush approved the bailout. It was this action that started the fire seen April 15, when hundreds of thousands around the country came out to voice their thoughts about the policies of government, past and present.

• The next reason for the Tea Parties was to see who the silent majority was. There were various issues that divided this group, but the one thing that tied them together was the excessive government spending and taxes. Some thought the government should abolish the Internal Revenue Service, and others thought it would be better to have the government put up a "fair tax" and others thought a "flat tax" would be better. But, the agreement was we should reform the taxes one way or another and stop government spending the wealth of today and making debt for tomorrow.

Looking at these two reasons alone, we can draw a conclusion. There were other reasons why each individual attended. But, the undertow, or the real reason why all these people came out by the thousands to Tea Parties nationwide was this - they wished to be heard.

This is the reason that ties all the different points together. Many of these people had phoned, written and e-mailed their congressperson and had been brushed off by men that work for them, men who are supposed to represent them and their views.

That is why the Tea Parties are trying to get the attention of the government that works for us and tell them what we the people want to do with our nation.

James R. Reiman

Comments

nikobesti 5 years, 6 months ago

Good explanation, James. I particularly appreciate your consistency in pointing the finger at both parties. However, I don't think you answered Ms. Villard's deeper question. She mentioned that she and her family enjoyed some government services such as a swimming pool and asked how a government could function without taxes.

Complaining about taxes and spending is easy. No one likes to pay taxes. What's difficult is actually providing viable solutions. I've asked this question several times on this forum but still haven't gotten an answer. I'll give it another shot: What specific government programs do you recommend be cut? Taxes in the US are already the lowest of any developed nation. Apparently you're not in favor of deficit spending, so we would have to cut costs drastically. Do you think the government should abdicate its responsibility to maintain infrastructure? Public schools? What about subsidies for oil and gas companies and ranching on public lands? How can our government provide basic services by taxing even less?

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grannyrett 5 years, 6 months ago

I don't think anyone is complaining about basic services. It's the gigantic government bail-outs. It's giving away billions of dollars that there isn't a chance in hell of being paid back. It's giving away money to foreign governments that hate us. It's auto companies that have shown they can't manage their own money, so we are going to let them piss away ours. That's my understanding of why the tea party movement started. If I'm wrong, at least, that's what's got me mad.

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nikobesti 5 years, 6 months ago

Okay, Patrick, I'll play along that we can have "reasonable" taxes and still have adequate government services. The only way this would even be remotely possible is if we weren't spending billions a week on a war in Iraq. I'd be interested in hearing your opinion on that, especially, if you think this war was justified, how do you think we should pay for it?

So here's an easy one: If our spending is "ungodly," what would you cut? Can you answer this one or just hurl more insults?

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nikobesti 5 years, 6 months ago

Point taken, granny. Other tea partiers were against "high" taxes, at least their signs said so. But let's discuss bail-outs, since that's what bothers you.

The problem is, we don't see what would have happen if we didn't have TARP or the stimulus package. Yes, a lot of businesses would have gone under. That's not necessarily horrible, but this could have been a very big deal and pushed us into a multi-decade depression (see Japan). With most of our major banks under, there would be no one to lend money at all the economy would have ground to a screeching halt. A lot of Americans are employed because of our auto industries, and the repercussions could have put our unemployment in double digits. I read a few experts say that if unemployment gets above 10%, we're in deep, deep trouble.

I don't have a PhD in economics, so I listen to those who do. Late last year, I read a dozen or more economists and financial experts who said the government had to do SOMETHING or we were in substantial trouble. I defer to their judgment.

Bail-outs stink. Who wants to bail out greedy failures? Problem is, the alternative might have been even worse.

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DONTTREADONME 5 years, 6 months ago

Niko let me start now infastructure tax on fuel is for this goes to a general fund and put were the gov sees fit not all to infastucture. Welfare 75% on welfare are there for life because they get payed to sit at home and do nothing but live off of the working class, I say if you get a welfare check you have to meet certaian criteria, drug test if failed no check for that month fail 2 drug tests no more checks period, take advantage of workforce centers and find a job same as someone laid off. social security is bankrupt do to it was sitting there not doing anthing so gov started using it. earmarks pig oders, marsh mouse study in CA, STD's study in CA thats just a couple out of 8600 in the last bill, paying for someones mortgage because they got a loan they new they couldn't afford, I'm paying mine because Istayed within my means. spending money we dont have just this last week $1,000,000,000 to Pakistan and the list keeps growing. If the Gov would stop the unnecisary spending just to pay back their large campaign contributors that they promised favors for we would not be where were at now. As far as Iraq yes it was needed at first but not now and that was thing that got obama ellected was the pull out but now he is sending more troops over there for what. I hope i answered your ?'s. The bailouts may have been needed but maybe not its to late to know now. if you study History ( you'll have to get a history book from the 70's or 80's ) read about Stalin, Hitler or even Mong and tell us there are no semaliarities between now and then. the same economical problems, unemployment and even CHANGE and look what happened!!! That is why I started the TEA PARTY in Craig. Our Veterans DEAD, CRIPPLED, Even CONFUSED DID NOT SERVE THIS GREAT COUNTRY TO WATCH IT FALL IN THIS MANNER.

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taxslave 5 years, 6 months ago

Who said they were too big to fail......they did. The same ones that said everything was ok. The same ones that caused the problem in the first place are those we expect to fix it?

Now that's Kool-aid.

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taxslave 5 years, 6 months ago

What we can cut.....

First off, 10 percent off salaries and dept. budget. You all work for us, remember? How about getting rid of that very, very expensive 100% health insurance we provide for you. Most of your servants don't have healthcare.

Tourrism Board

Code Enforcement Offices.....let my grass grow and if I want an old car on my property that offends you, don't look. It's mine, ok.

We also don't need rangers runnng around on a daily bases harrassing those in paid camp sites. We have real jerks in this depart.

What does the chamber do exactly?

I bet 70 percent of our taxes are going to your bloated payrolls and health insurance.

Now tell me, what's wrong with this picture?

Oh yeah, get rid of the accessor and anyone else who just looks for something else they can tax.

This is all so wrong.

Did I read a post that stated our taxes pay and fix infrastructure?.....on what planet?

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nikobesti 5 years, 6 months ago

That does answer my question, Rick. I appreciate it. You've shown that you've given this issue some rational thought, which is all it takes for me to respect your opinion.

So would you support an infrastructure tax if it did go to maintaining infrastructure? Our infrastructure has been neglected and is crumbling around us. I don't see any alternative to spending some money to fix it, but I agree the spending needs strict oversight and our state politicians should look to the Western Slope for projects instead of just the Front Range. We also need to get our communications infrastructure up to speed. Other countries are doing a better job of installing broadband, which puts us at a competitive disadvantage in a global economy which is all about information technology.

I agree that people on welfare should be required to do SOMETHING. Can't we ask them to pick up trash or do some other menial labor? I don't think we should get rid of welfare, but maybe we could make some changes to try to not reward lazy behavior.

Again, that's for the answers TREAD.

Also, thanks to taxslave for his very specific answers. This is the kind of thing that gets a real constructive discussion going. Now we can start talking about what to do about this problem.

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nikobesti 5 years, 6 months ago

Patrick, as I told Rick, I respect anyone's opinion who can explain to me why you feel that way. One only needs to illustrate that they've thought about what they're saying. I have given you ample opportunities to show this. Any answer would have been fine. Yet, you refuse.

Running this country is not simple. Every decision is a tradeoff. Every action has some benefits and some cost. This is why I ask "what would you like to cut?" I'm asking you to show me that you understand everything has a consequence. However, you show absolutely no understanding of this concept. Again, complaining is very easy; what's difficult is deciding what to do about it.

Your insistence that anyone who questions your opinions "hates America" is beyond pitiful. You obviously play that card when you're in way over your head. I've asked you simple questions and you won't even answer those. They're not hard-DONTREAD and taxslave answered it quite well. Instead, you question my patriotism. That's very classy, Patrick. I'm trying to have a discussion here that could move the country into figuring out some of these problems TOGETHER. You can't even participate in an intelligent discussion without labeling someone an idiot or an America hater. I live in America because I love this country. I try to get a discussion going to improve our country (you obviously think something is wrong, as you whine on this website every day), and you insult me. Who hates America again?

America was not founded by fist-pounding whiners. The greatest Americans do not throw temper tantrums and call names. They propose SOLUTIONS and work to get those solutions in place. You're very good at throwing stones, but stone throwers don't build it up, they bring America down.

You say you feel bad about your first post, but then you draft another one that's even worse, questioning my patriotism. I chuckle at your ridiculous insults in your first post comparing my intelligence to mud. Anyone who reads this forum sees how you can't back up your trash talking. You can talk that talk, Patrick, but you can't walk the walk. Your cheap insults show everyone on this forum that you're an embarrassment; a windbag who can pound his fist better than anyone, but when its time to sit down at the table and work out solutions, you're completely lost.

Like they say, an empty drum bangs the loudest.

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nikobesti 5 years, 6 months ago

Tom Gray, in doing his job, asks himself every day, "what should we cut?"

I'd like to see you call him an American hater to his face, Patrick.

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taxslave 5 years, 6 months ago

I not only support infrastructure tax, meaning road & bridge, refuge & water, etc. Of course we need a tax. I can't move all that snow. Becoming a slave to them is what I object to. Example.....

I can not afford rising residential and business property tax. I just can't after all these years. I can't keep up. I'm going to lose them and no one cares. We're going to build a rec center come hell or high water (for some reason) and it's announced our taxes are going up 20%, like it or not. Am I to camp out on the court house steps? Are you going to take care of me? You can't take care of me, you can't afford it as is evident already. Higher taxes exasperate the problem by adding to the lower class.....get it?

Again, I don't rebel against higher taxes because I'm mean, racist, stingy, uneducated and anything else anyone out there might think.

I've given craig my all for decades just to be swept under a rug like it doesn't matter as is happening in all third world nations. btw, I don't want to be taken care of by anyone...I just want to be left alone with what I have left to get me through the end of my days. There will be no social security sooner than anyone expects.

Weren't we the Christian nation?

Why are we always buying new expensive trucks and vehicles for everyone....always. Why not just hire a full time mechanic that always fixed stuff? Is it about the paint job?

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cantstandtexans 5 years, 6 months ago

My mind is working overtime....and I can handle it.

Without having to read all of the back and forth jabbing....the pros and cons....I'll just say it this way.

Some are saying these bailouts are give aways to those that need to be hung with a hemp rope and televised nationally for all to witness what will happen when your greedy lust for money destroys a country!!! These are not giveaways to corporations that started this mess to begin with. Just remember this......the bailout money are loans and loans only. They must be repaid......THEY ARE SIMPLY AND NOTHING MORE THAN LOANS!!!

Let me say this as well. I was bitching my ass off when the last administration was spending trillions in borrowed money while the ultra wealthy of this country reaped huge profits. WHERE WERE YOU T.E.A. Party members when Boss Cheney and his bitch Dufus Bush were destroying this countries very fabric??!! WHERE WERE YOU THEN??!!!! Screaming kill them thar terrorists??!!!! How comforting!!

Fake News with it's exaggerted rally numbers...and they were exaggerted...were involved with getting these T.E.A. rallies up and running. Is that where a grassroot upraising starts?

I'll post more....I have a bathroom to paint. So you all stay tuned. There's much more to this T.E.A party rally's than what meets the eye. For now...IT'S A BUNCH OF B.S!!! But more to come.

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taxslave 5 years, 6 months ago

I offer consumption tax. If you don't consume you don't pay. Do you know how fast that would get innovation started and people off-the-grid.

Example. If I own my land, till my soil, draw my own water, dispose of my own waste, etc., don't tax. If I use your roads I'll pay a consumption tax on the gasoline.

If I buy wood at true value and pay tax on it there don't come tax me at 10 times the rate for putting the wood together on land I own.....I'm not consuming.

This way a person can budget their retirement. With uncontrollable taxes (non-consumption tax) escallating the way it is, everyone will eventually end up in the poor house.

None of you are getting any younger and prices and taxes are going up on everything except wages, which are stagnant and/or going down. Benefits are being slashed on everyone except those employed by government, local, state, and federal.

There aren't enough of us left that are not working for the government to support the government and there are those of us who are working who are fixing to retire or just throw in the towel, get the camping gear out and start my own little tent city.

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George Robertson 5 years, 6 months ago

Ok Patrick you indicated your "sister is as far left as a person can get" and "just wont(sic) snap out of it". My question is who decided that you are right and she is wrong????? It sounds as though EVERYONE is entitled to YOUR opinion.

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lonelyone 5 years, 6 months ago

nim, that is human nature.....one person or a group of people are ALWAYS right and the others are always wrong. It doesn't matter who you are or what you believe in, someone is wrong and if they argue they are against everything you find right in this world. My husband use to tell me because of those beliefs you should never talk about three things with other people,....politics and religon and I can't seem to remember the third?!?!?! I think everyone who is one here trying to get a point across, really believes that their point is the right one. And some of you might as well beat your head against a wall, cuz your just not going to change any minds. It's just human nature.

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taxslave 5 years, 6 months ago

I judge all things by the Word of God. I know who is the father of lies....(say one thing and do another). Sound like any president(s) you've listened to in the last 20 years or so? Both parties lie. It's a two-headed monster.

You will know them by their works.

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nikobesti 5 years, 6 months ago

Taxslave: good point about government vehicles. I don't see why they can't hang on to them for a few more years and repair any issues, just like the rest of us do. Even after the warrantee expires it got to be cheaper to repair them. Gov vehicles get a ton of use and wear and tear, though, so while 10 years is probably out of the question, I don't see a need for new vehicles after 3 years. 'Course someone who drives around in one all day might have a different opinion:

A consumption tax sounds like it has merit. Has it been proposed in Congress? Is anyone talking about it? Why isn't it taken seriously? Could everything be paid for by a consumption tax, even things like education?

Not being a business owner, I have no idea how high business property taxes are. Sounds like they're a real concern. I am a home owner though and I know property taxes are relatively low around here compared to many other places in America. My rich uncle in Chicago pays $1,700 a month in taxes on his house! That's almost twice my mortgage and more than I pay in taxes on my house all year.

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