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Actually Katie, as long as you remain tethered to this nonsense, you will never understand what freedom truly is.
You possess a mental block, completely devoid of scientific theory.
In science one gathers facts, and after theorizing and repeated testing, those facts will eventually support a conclusion.
In religion, people such as yourself begin with a conclusion (god is the answer to everything) and spend the rest of your life looking for anything to support your theory.
While you can quote your bible until you are blue in the face, it has essentially the same significance as me quoting "Huckleberry Finn."
It is fiction, god is fiction and religious people will always retard the growth of out species.
There is no god..
Never will be.
Grow up, people.
Your diatribe is breathtakingly close minded. That you're so hostile, insulting and defensive when anyone presumes to express a worldview at odds with your own says more about you than you realize.
Pol Pot, Joseph Stalin, & Mao Tse Tung shared your contempt for the faithful and their beliefs. They presided over atheist regimes which rejected, ridiculed and condemned religion. They murdered & subjugated so many people they made Hitler look like Martha Stewart. They didn't do it in the name of religion, but in pursuit of a secular lust for power and control. And they did it in our lifetimes. I find their transgressions no less egregious than the Crusades, and make no distinctions between them. Evil is evil, regardless of how its perpetrators rationalize it. So rail all you like against religion, if it makes you feel better about yourself. To a non-denominational skeptic like me, it's just noise, and contributes nothing - except as a distraction from any meaningful conversation.
But when a christian says those things about a muslim - or a closet republican - such as yourself, spouts what they believe, it is ok.
So religion is silly and childish.
What about it?
And why shouldn't the educated be a little hostile towards those who refuse to grow up emotionally.
After all, they hold us back as a species.
When god is your immediate default (god made it rain, god elected bush, god made you short, god helped me while letting others die) there isn't much to it intellectually.
The lowest-educated areas always have the highest percentage of religious people.
Adolf Hitler, who you failed to mention in your defense of the religious, was a christian.
The 19 wtc bombers were religious.
The "god hates f-gs crowd" is also religious.
And you have the nerve to call me - someone who grew up attending church - close-minded?
Religious people possess a mental block.
They aren't stupid.
They just can't work around the irrational fear that there is a being somewhere watching them all the time.
Ya know, like Santa Claus.
Religion without fear is merely philosophy.
And we all know how well that sells.
How do you fit that fence where you sit into the closet where you live?
Thanks for making my point.
Better pull the fence post out of the closet for a couple hours - Rush would get mad at you for having it in there.
Baa baa ...
"I think, therefore I am." Both Descartes and Francis Bacon are regarded as the key figures in the development of scientific methodology, and both had systems in which God was important.
Bacon rejected atheism as being the result of insufficient depth of philosophy, stating, "It is true, that a little philosophy inclineth man’s mind to atheism, but depth in philosophy bringeth men's minds about to religion."
Robert Boyle, Isaac Newton, Pascal, Stephen Hawkins...all brilliant in science and theology which complimentarily and necessarily coexist. Albert Einstein said, "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."
Thank you to all who have and are sacrificing everything to protect our rights (including the 1st Amendment), even if we continue to chose to live each day in ignorance, intolerance, hatred and judgement.
misterkindbuds knocks it outta the park. Yes there is no finger snapper. But it's the religiously insane in this country that control the dialog to all of our misfortune. You betcha!
misterkindbuds and OneFly.......no doubt you both enjoy the freedoms this Country affords us. As you're sitting at your computer running down the thoughts of others, remember that God(or a version of His name)is mentioned 5 times in the Declaration of Independence and once in the US Consitution. Man, those forefathers of ours sure were silly, pie-eyed, sheep............
I looked at the U S Constitution today and even downloaded it and did a search and the words "Jesus Christ, Christianity, Bible, Creator, Divine, and God" are never mentioned in the Constitution-- not even once. Nowhere in the Constitution is religion mentioned, except in exclusionary terms. When the Founding Founders wrote the nation's Constitution, they specified that "no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States." (Article 6, section 3).
Many of the Founding Fathers were Deists and were considered Freethinkers and they spoke often of God, (Nature's God or the God of Nature), but this was not the God of the bible.
They wanted to ensure that no religion could make the claim of being the official, national religion, such as England had.
Additionally I reviewed the Declaration of Independence and only once is the word ‘God’ invoked and that is in the Preamble, but not used in a religious term.
Many of who were considered the Founding Fathers completely riled against the very thought of a ‘God’ and often wrote their thoughts to others in their letters or in newspaper articles.
"And the day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter. But we may hope that the dawn of reason and freedom of thought in these United States will do away with all this artificial scaffolding, and restore to us the primitive and genuine doctrines of this the most venerated reformer of human errors." -- Jefferson's letter to John Adams, April 11 1823
"Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprise." - James Madison, letter to Wm. Bradford, April 1, 1774
The point to all of this rambling is due to the fact that constantly in the media and even in articles like that written by Mrs. Grobe, God is constantly thrown out as a base religion of this country and this is just plain false. While I celebrate the right of an individual to practice whatever religion they choose, I rile at the thought of such narrow thinking that we all must subscribe to a national religion or the thought that all our Founding Fathers were Christians, for they clearly were not.
There is a reason why in Article VI, the statement of 'no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States' is written into the U S Constitution, it is because our Founding Fathers as flawed as they were, knew that religion had no place in the halls of government. Government serves ALL the people, and the people who make of the United States are as varied as all the colors and walks of life that make up this great experiment in democracy.
Traditional Deism, as I understand it, did not mean there was no belief in Jesus Christ nor of God (of the Bible), but rather that God created the heavens and earth and did not intervene personally thereafter.
Many of our founding fathers were Christians, (the majority Protestant and Catholic), which is evident in the Declaration of Independence (…endowed by their Creator), Pledge of Allegiance, Star Spangled Banner, "In God We Trust," our nation's motto and printed on our currency as examples, not to mention constructed into many of the historic buildings in our nation's capitol.
Many of our founding fathers attended church regularly, prayed over our country, and spoke openly about their beliefs which is not inconsistent with Article VI. I cite John Adams, John Hancock, Benjamin Franklin, James Monroe, Alexander Hamilton, John Witherspoon to name a few. You mentioned Thomas Jefferson who also wrote the Jefferson Bible, using the New Testament teachings of Jesus, omitting the virgin birth and miracles, while (oddly enough) retaining the second coming and heaven and hell, and I believe he mostly considered himself a Deist. Patrick Henry wrote, "This great nation was founded on the gospel of Jesus Christ, affording asylum, prosperity, and freedom to people of all beliefs."
I don't know of any of our founding fathers (Christian, Deist, whatever) who could be considered narrow thinkers. But there is a difference between believing and being forced into believing, which is what Article VI protects.
Curious how so many do not know their History... while Washington, Franklin, Jefferson and Adams all believed in a higher power you will not find a single reference to Christ.. in fact Jefferson went so far as to remove the word or reference to Christ from his personal Bible ( on display at Monticello)... And if you really want to get scandelous... even Lincoln ever mentioned Christ either..... The founding fathers were acutely aware of the dangers of Christianity and religion having control of government... remember that many of the origianl colonies barred those (catholics, Jews and various sects of Protestant's) who did believe what they did from their colonies,,, thus how Roger William came to found Rhode Island as a place of true religious freedom.
If you read about the widespread persecutions of those of other faiths in the colonies in the years leading to the revolution you will find it much like the Taliban of today.
What is going on today is not government forcing its beliefs on the populace but vocal minority religions trying to force their beliefs on the populace... we are "all created equal" please do not pretend to force your beliefs on me under the guise of Gods or Christ's will..... how many millions have died over the years trying to impose their God on others.........
Wow, are you serious? Washington, Franklin and Adams all believed in Christ. I could copy and paste the quotations, however I am done doing your work. And speaking of copy and paste...I never said Jefferson believed in Jesus; in fact I said he "copied" Jesus (while removing his name from it)...or more literally cut and paste...and you don't have to travel to Monticello to see it. lol
You're quite right, John - ignorance of history can often be often breathtaking.
"To the corruptions of Christianity I am indeed opposed; but not to the genuine precepts of Jesus himself. I am a Christian, in the only sense he wished any one to be; sincerely attached to his doctrines, in preference to all others; ascribing to himself every human excellence; & believing he never claimed any other."
~ Thomas Jefferson: letter to Benjamin Rush 12 April 1803
Interestingly, I've just finished Stephen Abrose's excellent Lewis & Clark narrative, which spends a good deal of time on Jefferson's failure to reconcile his role as slave owner with his own Christianity:
"God who gave us life gave us liberty. Can the liberties of a nation be secure when we have removed a conviction that these liberties are the gift of God? Indeed I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just, that his justice cannot sleep forever. Commerce between master and slave is despotism. Nothing is more certainly written in the book of fate than that these people are to be free."
We can all take turns poking holes in each other's arguments.....it has been going on for many years.
"When in the course......the Laws of Nature and Nature's God entitle them...."
"We hold these truths.....are endowed by their Creator with certain....."
"We, therefore, the Representatives....appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world.....with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence....."
"....present the Seventeeth Day of September in the year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and Eighty-seven..."
Abraham Lincoln: "...under a just God, can not long retain..."
"...if followed, the world will forever applaud, and God must forever bless."
".....with firmness in the right as God gives us to see...."
The First Continental Congress was opened with prayer that concluded, "...the merits of Jesus Christ, They Son, our Savior. Amen"
John Jay said, "...as privilege and interest - of our Christian nation to select...."
I have looked back over Katie's words, and at no point do I see her advocating for a Theocracy. A simple look at the overwhelming number of US Presidents shows that the majority professed to be, or had been, Christians......yet there is no historical reference to any of their terms having been theocratic.
And why all the venom about those who are religious? Although there are many differences in theology and dogma among the different Christian faiths, it is safe to say that they all believe in the Ten Commandments. Which of those Commandments(suggestions)do you vehemently disagree with?
I've recently begun reading Andrew D. White's epic A History of the Warfare of Science with Theology in Christendom, published in 1896. What follows is the closing paragraph of the chapter I finished last night - seems appropriate here:
"The world is finding that the scientific revelation of creation is ever more and more in accordance with worthy conceptions of that great Power working in and through the universe. More and more it is seen that inspiration has never ceased, that its prophets and priests are not those who work to fit the letter of its older literature to the needs of dogmas and sects, but those, above all others, who patiently, fearlessly, and reverently devote themselves to the search for truth as truth, in the faith that there is a Power in the universe wise enough to make truth-seeking safe and good enough to make truth-telling useful."
Why do religious people always feel the need to bring these types of discussions to public forum? Save it for church. CDP still showing a lack of discretion allowing people to post junk like this that only creates non-productive discussions and communal rift.
So the 1st amendment shouldn't apply to church goers. Thanks for clearing that up.
Oh look, the pretentious troll is back. Note to self: Do Not Feed.
I want to thankyou for all that you do and your article is very touching to me, especially in a time when a good part of our country is un informed and walking off the edge into darkness.
Liberals (progressives) are so in tuned to themselves and their high-tech science that they have left all morals behind, leaving it to their GOD (government) to take up their responsibilities. They have forgotten that this UNIQUE UNITED STATES was founded under GOD and we were given INALIENABLE RIGHTS.
These progressives are a very unstable and unhappy group of people but they seem to like it this way. Maybe it's because they have no GOD therefore they fear no GOD for their promiscuous lifestyles.
Our country was founded by mostly Deists who did not believe in a personal god.
Deism is based on morality.
On the other hand, narcissism is based on self-importance and an inflated sense of self.
Sounds like most of the religious, right-wing christians who believe they have a personal relationship with some person who lives in the sky.
There is no reason to fear a god who doesn't exist.
You seem to project a lot about instability and unhappiness, as do most right-wingers.
And just for the record, uninformed is one word.
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