craigdailypress.com

DV8 (Anonymous) says…

Read the article about the Weapons confiscated at the schools.

http://www.craigdailypress.com/news/2…

I have recently heard that the District Attorney's office is filing charges on some of the children who are referenced in the article, even though the incident does meet the legal definition of the crime, and/or the Supreme or Appeal court's decisions. I decided to do some research and found that the law about weapons at school states:

“18-12-105.5. Unlawfully carrying a weapon - unlawful possession of weapons - school, college, or university grounds.
(1) A person commits a class 6 felony if such person knowingly and unlawfully and without legal authority carries, brings, or has in such person's possession a deadly weapon as defined in section 18-1-901 (3) (e) in or on the real estate and all improvements erected thereon of any public or private elementary, middle, junior high, high, or vocational school or any public or private college, university, or seminary, except for the purpose of presenting an authorized public demonstration or exhibition pursuant to instruction in conjunction with an organized school or class, for the purpose of carrying out the necessary duties and functions of an employee of an educational institution that require the use of a deadly weapon, or for the purpose of participation in an authorized extracurricular activity or on an athletic team.”

Sounds straitfoward, and this is what the DA office wants you to believe. However, the law also states:

“(3) It shall not be an offense under this section if:
(a) The weapon is unloaded and remains inside a motor vehicle while upon the real estate of any public or private college, university, or seminary; “

The Colorado Appeals Court has also made rulings on this law that states:

“Unless the prosecution can also establish that the person used or intended to use the knife as a weapon, a person cannot be prosecuted under subsection (1) for carrying a knife with a blade less than three and one-half inches in length on school grounds. Even though subsection (1) references the deadly weapons statute, that statute does not specifically define “knife”. The term “knife” is, however, specifically limited to a weapon with a blade longer than three and one-half inches in length by § 18-12-101 (1), as applicable to this article. Thus, reading and harmonizing these provisions together, the plain language of both provisions establishes that, for purposes of this section, where the deadly weapon is a knife, it must qualify as a knife under § 18-12-101 (1)(f). People ex rel. J.W.T., 93 P.3d 580 (Colo. App. 2004).”

DV8 (Anonymous) says…

“Unless the prosecution can also establish that the person used or intended to use the knife as a weapon, a person cannot be prosecuted under subsection (1) for carrying a knife with a blade less than three and one-half inches in length on school grounds. Even though subsection (1) references the deadly weapons statute, that statute does not specifically define “knife”. The term “knife” is, however, specifically limited to a weapon with a blade longer than three and one-half inches in length by § 18-12-101 (1), as applicable to this article. Thus, reading and harmonizing these provisions together, the plain language of both provisions establishes that, for purposes of this section, where the deadly weapon is a knife, it must qualify as a knife under § 18-12-101 (1)(f). People ex rel. J.W.T., 93 P.3d 580 (Colo. App. 2004).”

The definition of Knife under 18-12-101 is:

“Knife” means any dagger, dirk, knife, or stiletto with a blade over three and one-half inches in length, or any other dangerous instrument capable of inflicting cutting, stabbing, or tearing wounds, but does not include a hunting or fishing knife carried for sports use. The issue that a knife is a hunting or fishing knife must be raised as an affirmative defense.”

I heard that the DA's office is filing charges on some of these children, even though the knife in question is under the legal limit in blade length, by calling it a “deadly weapon”. Deadly Weapon is defined as:

“Deadly weapon” means any of the following which in the manner it is used or intended to be used is capable of producing death or serious bodily injury:
(I) A firearm, whether loaded or unloaded;
(II) A knife;
(III) A bludgeon; or
(IV) Any other weapon, device, instrument, material, or substance, whether animate or inanimate.”

Again, sounds strait forward because the word “knife” is in this definition. Once again, however, the higher court have made decisions on this:

“A knife is not a deadly weapon per se. A knife is only a deadly weapon when it is used or intended to be used during the commission of another crime. People ex rel. J.W.T., 93 P.3d 580 (Colo. App. 2004).”

In the article, Principal Jane Harmon, states
“”We have no evidence that any of the five students who were expelled this year for weapons possession had any ill intent,” Harmon said, adding that she believes none of the five incidents were related.
Instead, she said, the students forgot they had brought the weapons with them on school property.”

So, if none of the children had intent to harm, and they accidentally brought them to school, why is the DA's office filing felony charges?

DV8 (Anonymous) says…

It seems the DA's office is trying to bully children (and their parents) into taking a plea, to avoid felony charges, in order to raise their win-lose ratio. Meanwhile, they let off Meth users with slaps on the wrist (once again, they play let's make a deal, in order to improve their win-lose)

I hope the parents of the children are standing up and fighting this in court. Kids are being charged with felonies for doing something on accident that is not a crime. It seems the DA's office thinks they are above the higher courts. They are turning normal children into juvenile delinquents, because they are easy victims.

It is also scary to think that if you go to pick your child up from school and have a pocket knife, you could be charged with a felony. If you go to pick a child up from school or attend a child's program at a school and still have your hunting rifle in the truck, you could be charged with a felony.

50cal (Anonymous) says…

get them in the system, get them on record, get their or their parents money. Let drug dealers go because of botched operations. If anyone thinks that the da and local law enforcement arn't in it for the money then you need to step away from Pat Germond and let your head clear. those of you who haven't been in the sights of this problem won't understand but these officials have raked generations over the coals for revenue.

grannyrett (Anonymous) says…

How about going after real criminals? How about not plea bargaining everything down. How about doing your job?

50cal (Anonymous) says…

they are doing their jobs. how do you think they pay for all their pet projects. ?

50cal (Anonymous) says…

another thing, they just had an artical in the paper about the acert arrest . another one charges have been dropped. seven are still up on charges and one has been dropped. seven are still looking at their options for a plea bargin. Did everyone forget how this game is playede? will these kids be ruined as well by a money hungry system?

Taylor (Anonymous) says…

Yes. They will go after the kids (and their parents) because they can get money from them. They will not go after the mexicans because they cannot make money and in fact will cost them money. Too bad our justice system revolves around money and not justice.

And yes, the kids will be ruined because “on paper” it will look like a terrible crime.

oldsage (Anonymous) says…

The DA's Office is filled with incompetence starting at the top. You are right about it being all about the money. If you love your children you will instruct them to never talk to a policeman/woman. And if you are smart you won't either. I saw two excellent videos on the subject where the law professor and a 29 year veteran police detective at a law school class make it very clear you should never talk to the police. EVER! (Even if you are innocent) There are lots of innocent people who have had things they said used against them by the police and district attorneys. And I cannot think of a better reason to home school than the fact that you or your child may be prosecuted for accidentally having a pocket letter opener in yours or their possession! Check it out at this web site!
http://video.google.com/videoplay?doc…

DV8 (Anonymous) says…

I hope everyone can get the word out, that the DA is filing charges on non-crimes, to turn children into felons, maybe if everyone tells the people they know about this, word can get to the victims of the DA's office and they will fight the charges. Maybe they will complain to the Colorado BAR association (who govern's attorney behavior) and have something done. I have looked into attorney ethics. It states that a prosecutor (DA) cannot file “frivolous” actions, such as charging a non-crime and their responsibility is to seek justice, not just to prosecute. Turning children into criminals is not justice. Let people know, so the word can get to these families that they need to fight it. I wonder how many people out there have felony records because of this.
I'm telling everyone I know.

50cal (Anonymous) says…

isn't it a shame we did't get the recall. Maybe if a few more had stood up these kids wouldn't be facing this.

grannyrett (Anonymous) says…

They prosecuted a black kid in Steamboat Springs who stood up for himself after being hassled in school. Cost his parents $40,000 for a lawyer, but he won his case in court. Go to Steamboat paper and search Randall Nelson. (I think that is his name)

CindyLou (Anonymous) says…

This is also why we pay law enforcement 40-50 thousand a year to sit in a 25,000 dollar car in a blind spot writing tickets. Its easy, relatively safe, and you get to charge a fine. Just another form of tax collection. Hastle normal everyday working folks for going five over the limit (which is the speed of a brisk walk) instead of going after real criminals.

I also get a kick out of how overboard our system goes. I saw a one armed elderly lady have to take her arm off at DIA for the gaurds so they could make sure she didn't have a bomb. YEAH when was the last time an old white lady took out a plane? Try never - If we live in a society where little old ladies are blowing people up then we might as well all just give up on society, because it is done.

Right now check the paper for the sheriff and city police call list. Almost half are people with spanish last names and they only make up maybe 15% of the population. Math is interesting on that one. Heck I bet not one of those currently being charged in the last big drug bust will get deported or spend any real time in jail. But nail the kid who brought the pocket knife to school. Kinda like the principal who expelled the first grader back east because his mom put a butter knife in his lunch box and the first grader self reported it to his teacher. Zero tollerance in these cases is 100% crap.

grannyrett (Anonymous) says…

Common sense in school? Nice idea, but I don't think it will fly.

50cal (Anonymous) says…

I hope everyone pays attention to the articals written about the democrat running for office. I normally don't vote democrat but I think I will this time so maybe we can clean out the riff-raff. you can already see that the establishment is against her. I would consider that a plus

oldsage (Anonymous) says…

That is what I am going to do. Vote them out every time! It does not matter what party they belong to or claim to be. When G W Boosh came in on the gun control side of the DC Ban I confirmed he was a piece of …… and I would never vote for the lesser of the two evil doers again!

vote them out every time!

50cal (Anonymous) says…

term limits look more appealing all the time oldsage.

NWCOResident (Anonymous) says…

It is a shame when kids are treated as criminals. Way back when, this would have been handled by a call to the parents, maybe a short suspension to reinforce the point. How is it that tha DA's office can blatantly ignore the case law and file charges for something like this?

I am trying to gather more information about these cases. If you are involved in one of these weapons cases, or know someone who is involved, I would like you to e-mail me.

NWCOResident@yahoo.com

I think what the DA's office is doing is ridiculous waste of taxpayers money and there should be some accountability for what they are doing to these families and to our community!

Marvin (Anonymous) says…

Our DA has a long running well kown history of being an overbearing, a over paid, devious pig of a person. with the very mention of the moffat county DA's office causes gnashing of teeth, and sends infants into teary convulsions. The mnion of the underworld are draining the pockets of non offenders and chargeing them with qwite lucritive crimes… After all, its job security and cash flow for those greedy little pigs! And may i remind you that we live in Criag Colorado? We shoot critters, cruise around proudly displaying our rifle in our truck rack for all to know that we are bad-@$$ hunting, get er done, blue collar folk. take your psuedo justice elseware! Possibly to some anti fist amendment state, or possibly communist russia! and why hasn't the Craig NRA stepped up to help the kiddo? I think the right to bear arms should apply to any type of self defense weaponry, excluding such extravagence as a sticky bomb!

Marvin (Anonymous) says…

If I was the DA's mother I would be so ashamed that I would curse my womb that birthed such a hiddeous 'person'. then i would go say hail marys until my lips went numb, take up buddism, get baptised lutheran, build and second kitchen and go kosher. All in frivilous hopes to cleanse my filthy soul…..but that is just what i would do. Then I would kill a skunk in a smokey shed and pay reverence to some earthly SENSAI.

grannyrett (Anonymous) says…

Thank goodness this turned out the way it did. However, Ms. Roesink was overzealous in her prosecution of your son and many others. She overdoes it on cases like this, and takes the easy way out on major cases. Drug dealers get off on their charges and school kids get the book thrown at them. Something is wrong here. I think it sends a message to drug dealers that Moffat County is a pretty safe place to deal in drugs. You can get a free trip home to smuggle more drugs back in. It's someone else's problem. These people ruin so many lives. They are free to continue to do so.

bridy (Anonymous) says…

For any and all of you who have followed this story / thread. I am the Mom of the boy that has been the center of attention here. I have refrained from posting anything until the trial was over. Today (Thursday July 31, 2008) was my sons trial. Yes, you heard me right, this actually went all the way to trial!
I want to say that Judge Gardner has always had my respect, and today is no exception.
We got into the courtroom this afternoon and much to my surprise, Bonnie Roesink herself walked in to prosecute my boy personally. I can't imagine what he had done that warranted that kind of attention. The DA agreed to a stipulation that had been entered that they agreed that my son had NO intent to use the pocketknife as a weapon or to commit a crime. Then the knife was brought out and the blade was measured. It measured 2 3/4 inches long. The DA started her prosecution. The first witness called was a friend of my son. I felt very bad for this young person. She looked and sounded terrified. The second witness called was a school official. The DA then rested her case.
Our attorney then moved that the case be dismissed. The Judge asked if he meant to ask for an acquittal. Our attorney agreed. He made a few arguement based on the existing case law. The judge took a very brief recess to look over the cases cited.
Judge Gardner then returned to the courtroom. She made a very thorough ruling to acquit and then dismissed the case. Somewhere in there, (too much happiness and adrenaline to remember exactly where) the Judge said something to the effect of; she wasn't sure why this case had gone all the way to trial.
I'm sure we can all agree with that sentiment. Although our DA's office isn't all it should be, our Judicial system works thanks to Judges like Judge Gardner.
Thank you for all of your support. My boy can have his life and the rest of his summer back without the ever watchful eyes of the courts.

lonelyone (Anonymous) says…

I am so glad things turned out good for your son.
Birdy, was your son the only one being tried for this matter? I seem to remember there were a few other kids who had done something similar. If that is the case I hope they all have the same outcome as your son.

bridy (Anonymous) says…

My son was the only one on trial yesterday. I understand that he was not the only one that had charges filed. I have no idea who the other kids are or what the status of their case(s) are. I would really love to hear form the other parents. The DA's office tried to get us to take a plea bargain (they knew that they didn't have a case). I worry that the other parents didn't have the same knowledge of the law or resources to fight like we did. I fear that the other kids may be in the system because of some unfair plea bargain that they were intimidated into taking by the DA's office. I would really love to hear form some other parents that have been in a similar situation.

grannyrett (Anonymous) says…

Maybe if you wrote a letter to the editor, they would get in touch with you. I don't know how else to get in touch with them. Maybe they could send you an e-mail through the paper.

lonelyone (Anonymous) says…

Your right it makes no sense at all.
Maybe, if you know who this kid is call his/her parents and give them some pointers on what you did with your child???

bridy (Anonymous) says…

Just an FYI: There is another teen being charged with a crime that should never have been handled as a crime.
I can't help but wonder where we all would be if the police and school handled things back when we were in school the way they are handled now.
Quite a few of us would have done time in “juvey” or had probation at the very least. These incidents were handled by our parents, and most of us never repeated the transgression. What happened to good parenting? Why does our judicial district feel the need to criminalize our youth?
It makes me sick to my stomach to see so many of our teens going through the criminal justice system and ending up with records because of the bullying techniques used by the DA's office when they know they don't have a case. Then, you turn around and read about another drug bust (usually of illegals) that got plead down to a slap on the wrist, or dropped entirely. Why do they get to walk when our kids have to live with a record that they should have never had!?

DV8 (Anonymous) says…

Between Oldham and Jeremy Snow, the Roesink tradition lives on.

I thought Republicans wanted smaller government involvement, yet our Republican DA's seem to want to control everyone and be involved with everyone's life and have every child on probation.

This is what happens when people vote party lines… We get Roesink Jr.